WHO IS SOLAR RED?

Why am I asking questions?

Because I'm hoping someone has some answers. So far, no luck.

I think we all know why those rosters exist but everyone is afraid to come out and say it. Bottom line, regardless or whether clubs/teams use it, t's a loophole to use ECNL players as CPP. Yes, all ECNL teams have a got soccer roster but I assume that the discussion about this particular team has to do with their recent game where this loophole was used. For those of you that favor CPP and its use of ECNL players, don't get your panties ruffled. It ain't gonna change.

Solar Red is the New England Patriots of NTX Soccer. In this example, Belichick was worried that he would lose and therefore he life would be empty and unfulfilled. So Bill is using the rules in his team's favor.

A little birdie mentioned there was some forum activity.
I can probably help or add to the conspiracy,

It looks to me that the Solar Red team and roster are not active.
The roster is 3 years old (many are on other teams now).
ECNL  finals appear to be using GotSoccer
- how that works is the tournament tries to match teams in gotsoccer with teams participating (not an easy task) - leading to invalid histories.
That, theorectically, impacts records/ranking..but, personally doesn't matter for anything other than opponent's research.

Our team is new to the CPP world, so, it's a learning curve at this point.
We've only used 1 CPP in a game but I believe it's a max of 3 - two out currently. We had 2 on a roster but only one attended game.
Max roster is 18 so, injured/absent must be crossed out on roster.  Not sure how it works for teams with more than 18 on their non-CPP roster.
Basically,  team has a weekly deadline to request CPPs per games and gets approval from the league.
That's how players can play on different teams on different dates (assuming there is some manual or automated check).

We plan to use a CPP in National League as well - good college exposure/event.

I don't know how other clubs or why Gotsoccer would have any active ECNL teams but, if they entered a gotsoccer event - that would make sense.
I noticed a lot of our players are on ECNL rosters - must be some ECNL fairy in play. We have had many dual-rostered players in the last three years (i.e. on roster but never played as
ENCL has historically been full/maxed.  
Haven't been online in a while - anything worth looking for in past threads (PED use/missing emails/bd reffing?)

22 is the max roster at U16, that's how they do it.

I wouldn't call this much activity. Wait until the CPP's show up at the D1 playoff's at the end of the spring season. That'll bring some activity.

Thanks for the input Clueless. Good to see you. After this thread finishes working on the ecnl/cpp conspiracy, we plan to tackle who really killed Lincoln and JFK.

InaB wrote:Thanks for the input Clueless. Good to see you. After this thread finishes working on the ecnl/cpp conspiracy, we plan to tackle who really killed Lincoln and JFK.

DM

InaB wrote:Hi Pack, no there isn't a Solar Red (reverse yes Virginia answer).

InaB wrote:Thanks OL. This has gotten exhausting.

InaB wrote:Thanks for the input Clueless. Good to see you. After this thread finishes working on the ecnl/cpp conspiracy, we plan to tackle who really killed Lincoln and JFK.

InaB,
I am genuinely confused... I get the Got Soccer "old, inactive team being left up" thing...Also understand that CPP purpose is the use of players without using a roster spot, whereas dual-rostering takes up a roster spot from both team... But...

As I understand it (I haven't compared the red, ecnl, elite, and Hopkins rosters as others have), the questions being asked (deep breathe):

- are the players in question CPP or dual rostered?
- If CPP'd, from which roster? solar red or the ECNL roster?
- IS Got Soccer's Solar Red team/roster active or inactive in NTSSA?
- if Solar Red is an inactive team, why has its roster (allegedly) changed/updated recently?
- why were Solar player(s) wearing jersey #'s assigned to other players (allegedly)?
- is an ecnl player CPPing for a LH team considered "playing down"?
- can an "inactive solar red" player CPP for a LH team? If so, would it be considered playing "up" or "down".

Lastly, what would be the benefit of having a NTSSA team that doesn't play games?

It'd be more helpful if you answered where the players came from (if you know), instead of poo-poo'ing the questions...

InaB,
I am genuinely confused... I get the Got Soccer "old, inactive team being left up" thing...Also understand that CPP purpose is the use of players without using a roster spot, whereas dual-rostering takes up a roster spot from both team... But...

As I understand it (I haven't compared the red, ecnl, elite, and Hopkins rosters as others have), the questions being asked (deep breathe):


I can only answer about the single CPP who played for us (she did score a goal - fyi).

- are the players in question CPP or dual rostered? te CPP is not Dual Rostered
- If CPP'd, from which roster? solar red or the ECNL roster? She is registered with Solar via North Texas and Lake Highlands - the GotSoccer tool won't allow someone who is not registered to be placed on roster as CPP - similar to any tournament guest additions
- IS Got Soccer's Solar Red team/roster active or inactive in NTSSA? I know many of the players are 'active' but I don't know what 'Solar Red' has to do with it as some on that roster are playing ECNL with different club/teams - Not sure how NTSSA deems a team/roster 'active'
- if Solar Red is an inactive team, why has its roster (allegedly) changed/updated recently? Never seen it prior to today so not sure what would change
- why were Solar player(s) wearing jersey #'s assigned to other players (allegedly)? There were no conflicts. The team has 2 guest jerseys - in case a CPP has conflicting jersey.  The CPP used a guest jersey
- is an ecnl player CPPing for a LH team considered "playing down"? There is no playing down - D1 is the top Division and the player can be younger but not older than the age group
- can an "inactive solar red" player CPP for a LH team? If so, would it be considered playing "up" or "down". any player on an old team in Gotsoccer has to be registered prior to playing that year - if you look hard enough, there are teams that no longer exist - the players are likely playing on different teams so, the team is inactive but the player is 'active' on a different team/club

Lastly, what would be the benefit of having a NTSSA team that doesn't play games?
I've seen this prior to CPP - for showcases as well as to house registrations for CPP players.


Man, wasn't aware of all this conspiracy talk - it's interesting, but, the thing to realize is there are approvals multiple times per week that would likely prevent, I'd hope (of course, I guess birth certs and signatures can be forged).  Not totally convinced on the Lincoln-JFK / DM connection - the birthdate doesn't work (pretty stout alibi).

I can't find a definition for "team" anywhere in LHGCL or NTSSA bylaws. I did find a definition for "team" in the USSF bylaws. I'm thinking USSF bylaws take precedence.

(20) "team" means a group of soccer players playing on the same side in soccer games.

Seems according to USSF, if you don't play games you're not a team.

OLJW wrote:I can't find a definition for "team" anywhere in LHGCL or NTSSA bylaws. I did find a definition for "team" in the USSF bylaws. I'm thinking USSF bylaws take precedence.

(20) "team" means a group of soccer players playing on the same side in soccer games.

Seems according to USSF, if you don't play games you're not a team.

If 'soccer players' is part of the definition, that would limit most of the games I've seen to about 3-4 fitting that description. They could change that to 'girls' and 'in between texting' and it may work.

IMO, CPP is for the birds - too many questions on usage. But, having gone through seasons with 12 healthy players and 14 on an entire roster the next year - CPP would have helped a great deal. Not the results but players had a rough time knowing there was no one to sub. Guessing this is to keep some talent in the league and prevent teams from dismantling teams entirely. If there is a 3 player max - not sure how it can drastically change the rosters that exist today. Teams with 19-22 would only be able to use the players if others are injured or cut. If there are more than 18 on a roster now - how does travel work? Does someone just stay home?

No worries, we play in Lake Highlands. Can't really count on a full roster any further than the first 30 secs of the first game. Last year it was 1 ACL, 2 fractured vertebrae, 1 concussion, 1 broken foot, 1 severe groin pull.
This year after 2 months it's 3 ACL's, a groin pull, and another as yet to be determined knee injury.

Punchline is.....seen more Ambulances than yellow cards this year.

Clueless, thank for the info!

clueless wrote:InaB,
I am genuinely confused... I get the Got Soccer "old, inactive team being left up" thing...Also understand that CPP purpose is the use of players without using a roster spot, whereas dual-rostering takes up a roster spot from both team... But...

As I understand it (I haven't compared the red, ecnl, elite, and Hopkins rosters as others have), the questions being asked (deep breathe):


I can only answer about the single CPP who played for us (she did score a goal - fyi).

Just involved with one? Are you sure?

clueless wrote:
- are the players in question CPP or dual rostered? te CPP is not Dual Rostered
- If CPP'd, from which roster? solar red or the ECNL roster? She is registered with Solar via North Texas and Lake Highlands - the GotSoccer tool won't allow someone who is not registered to be placed on roster as CPP - similar to any tournament guest additions

Oh, ok ...so she can't be CPP'd direcrly from ecnl, so the need for the solar red roster.

clueless wrote:
- IS Got Soccer's Solar Red team/roster active or inactive in NTSSA? I know many of the players are 'active' but I don't know what 'Solar Red' has to do with it as some on that roster are playing ECNL with different club/teams - Not sure how NTSSA deems a team/roster 'active'

Well, if players on its roster can be CPP'd, it must be considered an "active" team.

clueless wrote:
- if Solar Red is an inactive team, why has its roster (allegedly) changed/updated recently? Never seen it prior to today so not sure what would change
- why were Solar player(s) wearing jersey #'s assigned to other players (allegedly)? There were no conflicts. The team has 2 guest jerseys - in case a CPP has conflicting jersey.  The CPP used a guest jersey

Understood- thx.

clueless wrote:
- is an ecnl player CPPing for a LH team considered "playing down"? There is no playing down - D1 is the top Division and the player can be younger but not older than the age group
- can an "inactive solar red" player CPP for a LH team? If so, would it be considered playing "up" or "down". any player on an old team in Gotsoccer has to be registered prior to playing that year - if you look hard enough, there are teams that no longer exist - the players are likely playing on different teams so, the team is inactive but the player is 'active' on a different team/club

Ok, gotcha-- Like Hilton's roster
So ecnl is considered D1? So D1 teams can transfer 3 players on a weekly basis to a sister D1 team in need (as long as they aren't playing more than one match a day)?

clueless wrote:
Lastly, what would be the benefit of having a NTSSA team that doesn't play games?
I've seen this prior to CPP - for showcases as well as to house registrations for CPP players.

So these "dummy" teams are just vessels to house players so they can be moved around the club... But my question- The CPP coming from Solar Red-- are they considered D1, D2 or D3... Plano?

clueless wrote:
Man, wasn't aware of all this conspiracy talk - it's interesting, but, the thing to realize is there are approvals multiple times per week that would likely prevent, I'd hope (of course, I guess birth certs and signatures can be forged).  Not totally convinced on the Lincoln-JFK / DM connection - the birthdate doesn't work (pretty stout alibi).

Clueless, You've been helpful, thank you. Glad to see you back on the forum.

I've never been a big fan of conspiracy theories (no one can keep a secret that long) or the label implied on those, whom it is directed at... However,  I am a believer in transparency, fair play, and "dancing with the one that brought ya".  However, you have my upmost respect for participating and answering my questions.

My question is how these players on ... NTSSA player vessels...are classified?  Are Solar Red players considered D1, D2, D3 when cpp'ing... Surely those players would be considered playing "down"... Which dictates how many CPP can be borrowed without a roster spot?

It is interesting that Solar Hopkins added 3 players last night... "Dual-rostered", I assume?

Final Thought: I am a admirer of that Solar ecnl team... IMO, it is one of the best (if not the best) teams in the country... I'm sure the college prospects for that team are astounding... I'm sure several of them have numerous colligate suitors.

Last question: Who's paying for the college, God forbid, of those players if she blows out a knee or hip while helping out Elite and Hopkins?

I'm sure those young ladies' attorneys will be very interested in any and all conspiracy theories.

I'm not familiar with how players are classified but I assumed they are all D1 as that's how they are requested as CPP - the tool asks what age and division. There might be an edit to prevent playing up or going above the max.  The max of 3 is really dependent on the overall roster size - can't exceed 22 - can only play 18. You can't play down but, I agree that, for the vast majority of ECNL players, they are playing down (some exceptions).

In the interest of everyone's education - the gamesheet shows players that are CPP - from the attached example - we had 2 on roster, but again - only one was at the game (#20 was there - #24 was not). The highlight is actually on the sheet not just this pic. The tool/process is ridiculously easy to use. This would be so much better if everyone could see game cards - but, then this entire thread wouldn't exist!  First time trying a picture, hope it works:          

I can't answer about Hopkins - can't see that info and really not familiar with that roster, injuries, availabilities. My dd said an ENCL player was playing on that field but I didn't notice.  If players are dual-rostered, you should see them in Gotsoccer - appears that there are a few ECNL players on their gotsoccer listing.

Clueless (and anyone else who has kept reading)-

The LH rule is that only 1 player can come DOWN to play at a lower level...LH changed the CPP rule this year to eliminate some of the issues many people were having with CPP last year, which was stacking teams with ECNL players to avoid relegation or to "earn" promotion.

I have no knowledge of what anyone else has done...I don't see the pregame rosters nor have I ever pulled a CPP to place on a roster...I do feel that if a team is guilty of this abuse, then it should be stopped because it is the loophole referenced earlier. I don't like injustice, and to me, it is an injustice to affect other team's promotion/relegation chances by abusing this rule.

Until this "opportunity" dawned on me, I actually liked the changes made to the rule this year because I felt like 1) CPP wasn't going away, and 2) the changes made CPP less impactful while providing for the "spirit" of the rule, but if LH doesn't view ECNL as a higher league, then I don't see any significant difference in the rule this year over last, and I feel it is a bad rule.

I think what PR and others are saying is that if LH allowed you 2 CPP players from a higher league (ECNL) they have broken their own rule about how many CPP players you can use from a team at a higher level...OR they basically opened the door to abuse by lowering ECNL status to equivalent to LH D1...either way, that isn't cool. The fact that only one saw the field isn't solace regarding the principle.

The Solar Red ordeal is a question of whether or not teams are using a roster for the very purpose of "tricking" Got Soccer into thinking that the CPP you pulled for your team is a player on a NTSSA team (equivalent to LH, thus not limited to 1 player). The worry with Solar Red is that the roster is merely a shell for pulling players for teams that intended to circumvent the rule. It could very well be that YOU pulled from that or another roster for your CPP, but either way, if you pulled 2 ECNL players, that don't play in LH regularly, then you were able to avoid the rule that was created to ensure this sort of thing didn't happen.

Taken another way...and with another club...The Sting Hilton roster appears to be a list of the ECNL players for Sting, and those girls DON'T play in a NTX league to my knowledge, but IF the roster allows Sting to make all their ECNL players available (3 at a time), then it basically circumvented the rule, which was modified this year expressly to limit stacking rosters...

I AM NOT SAYING STING DOES THIS>>>MERELY THAT THEY COULD.

Another example taken to the extreme is this...If Solar Gold, Elite or Hopkins were to dual roster 3 ECNL players...AND can pull 3 additional ECNL players from a bogus NTSSA roster (eg. Solar Red)...then they can essentially pull 6 ECNL players for any game they want. I don't know what the others do, but we DON'T...but if the rule sits that way, we COULD since ECNL is no higher than LH D1 in the eyes of the rule...

The problem to me isn't that Solar Elite CPPd 1 ECNL player (according to you-whom I assume to be credible and honest)...the problem is the potential for abuse that exists if we are understanding the application of the modified LH rule. I suspect that as the league plays out, there will be a tightening in the 5-9 spots on the table...manipulating that with CPP players means that a team that was more deserving with their original roster may be relegated because of the inferior team's resources and NOT their play. That would be the injustice.

This CPP thread is getting old. If your child doesn't like to compete against the very best, then pull them out of soccer and save your $$.

Get real!!

SOCCER TRUTH wrote:This CPP thread is getting old.  If your child doesn't like to compete against the very best, then pull them out of soccer and save your $$.

Get real!!

This.

Your kids are U16, 1-2 years from moving on. If you're still concerning yourself with this nonsense, then you aren't seeing the forest for the trees.

"This CPP thread is getting old. If your child doesn't like to compete against the very best, then pull them out of soccer and save your $$.

Get real!!"

I don't know if this was particularly for me, but my kiddo loves to play soccer, and I love watching her.  That is why she plays and I pay.  Why would I pull her?

Why have weight classes in boxing or wrestling? Why bring your bodyguard to fight for you, if you like the competition...

I am the one who doesn't like the barn storming going on.  In our house, soccer is competitive and fun. But it isn't competitive NOR fun to play at the wrong level...I have never liked those games that were blow outs (either for or against).  I am tuned into a principle that I feel is a necessity in sport-fair play.  I prefer the idea that you earn promotion as you can, and face relegation when you can't...but when it is unfair, I work to change it.

Pull her because it isn't a fair set up...no. Work to make a change and let people know how I feel about it on a forum designed to discuss soccer issues? Why not?

You don't have to click the link...but you can.

If I understand correctly. ....the opposing team sees the roster and will know if there are CPP players in any given game. So managers or coaches should speak up if there is abuse going on.

dad and Seven seemed to have touched a nerve by shedding some light on the ECNL loop hole. They must be close to the mark if SOCCER TRUTH created a login just to complain.

Was player sharing and different rosters every weekend not as common in academy with these age groups?

I ask, because with the 06s... wow, you never know who is going to show up.

I've read on this forum that ECNL is not all that. So, which is it?

Seven wrote:If I understand correctly. ....the opposing team sees the roster and will know if there are CPP players in any given game.  So managers or coaches should speak up if there is abuse going on.

Yes, you understand correctly. Your manager can pull up the opposing team's roster before every game. If there is a CPP on the opposing teams roster, there is a yellow highlighted CP, just as depicted in the above post.

Sometimes there will be more CP's on the roster than are actually playing in the game. On the other hand, I know from first hand experience, that people come on here and lie about who was CPP'd and how much they played.

If you read the CPP rule and then go watch a game played with CPP players, it is crystal clear that this rule is not being used for its STATED INTENT. It is also crystal clear that there is zero oversight and zero enforcement.

USSF definitions say that "teams" play "games".  Any team that exists only on paper, for whatever reason, is NOT a team because it does not meet the definition of a team.....by playing games. Therefore, any player used in a game, from one of these "paper teams" is an illegal player. NTSSA & LHGCL have no authority to pick and choose which USSF bylaws they feel like adhering to.

Sho'nuff wrote:I've read on this forum that ECNL is not all that. So, which is it?

ECNL SUCKS!

SOCCER TRUTH wrote:This CPP thread is getting old.  If your child doesn't like to compete against the very best, then pull them out of soccer and save your $$.

Get real!!

Soccer Truth,
I doubt this is you 1st post...Considering that you are unable to ignore this thread, the tenor and lack of depth of your comment, as well as your unwillingness to use your correct alias to publish your cheap shot, I must assume some negative things about you. Therefore, I will speak frankly with you.

Lance Armstrong's need to be the best, pushed him to cheat; the fact everyone was doing it justified his actions; to defend his behavior, he attacked, bullied and demeaned those who questioned his lack of transparency. Since I have always despised bullies and find your alias inappropriate, I shall call you Lance:

Lance,

Clueless, with class and patientce, explained in detail, her part of the process and used humor to express his/her frustration. You chose to assume (aloud), us liberal whiners, whose DD's are lesser soccer players who need protection from competition, when you should not. In fact, you should assume my DD has kicked your DDs azz on the field and also fully capable of doing so off of it; twice that for her old man.

First, all organized sports that demand honor and transparency from its member. It's unseemly when those with vested interest mock and ridicule honest debate about transparency. My opinion:

1-I do not blame the LHGCL board for this issue.
2-I understood, supported and defended the rule as a good player development tool, until its blatant bastardization last year, when the rule was used to corner D1 standings.
3- Right and Wrong should not be determined by what is beneficial;
4- Proclamations that CPP's spirit is not being violated are disingenuous. The rule is for player development, not artificially impacting league standings.
5- Solar has been on the receiving end of these shenanigans and is finally reponding in full.

Lance, no thread is not worth heartache or aggravation... If you are unable to change your mind with new information or verbalized why that CPP isn't being abused for standing, then I suggest you move onto a new thread.

Packrabbit wrote:

SOCCER TRUTH wrote:This CPP thread is getting old.  If your child doesn't like to compete against the very best, then pull them out of soccer and save your $$.

Get real!!

Soccer Truth,
I doubt this is you 1st post...Considering that you are unable to ignore this thread, the tenor and lack of depth of your comment, as well as your unwillingness to use your correct alias to publish your cheap shot, I must assume some negative things about you. Therefore, I will speak frankly with you.

Lance Armstrong's need to be the best, pushed him to cheat; the fact everyone was doing it his justified his actions; to defend his behavior, he attacked, bullied and demeaned those who questioned his lack of transparency. Since I have always despised bullies and find your alias inappropriate, I shall call you Lance:

Lance,

Clueless, with class and patientce, explained in detail, her part of the process and used humor to express his/her frustration. You chose to assume (aloud), us liberal whiners, whose DD's are lesser soccer players who need protection from competition, when you should not. In fact, you should assume my DD has kicked your DDs azz on the field and also fully capable of doing so off of it; twice that for her old man.

First, all organized sports that demand honor and transparency from its member. It's unseemly when those with vested interest mock and ridicule honest debate about transparency. My opinion:

1-I do not blame the LHGCL board for this issue.
2-I understood, supported and defended the rule as a good player development tool, until its blatant bastardization last year, when the rule was used to corner D1 standings.
3- Right and Wrong should not be determined by what is beneficial;
4- Proclamations that CPP's spirit is not being violated are disingenuous. The rule is for player development, not artificially impacting league standings.
5- Solar has been on the receiving end of these shenanigans and is finally reponding in full.

Lance, no thread is not worth heartache or aggravation... If you are unable to change your mind with new information or verbalized why that CPP isn't being abused for standing, then I suggest you move onto a new thread.

Tldr: my dd can beat up your dd