'04 End of Season Approaching

adufresne wrote:"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
                                                   -----Albert Einstein

Certainly applies to this thread. It's unfortunate that a few of the White team girls are forced to move on. Been friends for years. Every team/club is realigning. D'feeters is no different.  Player movement at this time of year is completely normal. It happens every year. Joey doesn't coach the White team. Babak doesn't coach the 05s anymore. I'm touched at the concern for the application of the Feet byes.

I'm curious how many you think a few are because if I was a betting man I think only 5-7 move to D1. Not that more don't deserve it but by the time you combine everyone from multiple teams...

To me the big difference and why there seems to be agro is that most other clubs are, as you say, moving girls around but they're not moving them out of the club. Plus this a pretty good team as is stands who've been moving up and it's a shame that it would be blown up when really most of the parents just wanted the team to stay together and keep developing without the drama. Oh well, maybe if we were in another state or parallel universe where the girls and parents came first

...anyway the good thing is the girls are all pretty talented and should have no problem finding a spot. The toughest part now is keeping track of all the new practice uniforms...

adufresne wrote:"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
                                                   -----Albert Einstein

Certainly applies to this thread. It's unfortunate that a few of the White team girls are forced to move on. Been friends for years. Every team/club is realigning. D'feeters is no different.  Player movement at this time of year is completely normal. It happens every year. Joey doesn't coach the White team. Babak doesn't coach the 05s anymore. I'm touched at the concern for the application of the Feet byes.

I sense a little frustration.

It is a bit disingenuous to imply that only a “few” white team girls will be forced to move on, when it appears that it is the majority of the players who have been told to look elsewhere.

I think some the frustration stems from the fact that it didn’t have to be this way.  Yes – every club is realigning, but this team is not.  The bye was taken from the team who earned it, and is being given to a team that may not contain any of those girls (and apparently doesn’t want it).  Player movement is a given – but have you EVER heard of a bye being stripped from a team – a team that would have made next year – and given to another team, possibly without any of the current team members being represented?

Most players on the White team have played together for years – some for 4-5 or more.  They have played through turmoil, through numerous coaching changes, movement of players to Black, supported the club, the coaches, and each other.  But when the time came that the club could reciprocate – support the girls and their desire to continue to playing together – the club decided that it was in the club’s best interest to take the bye and assign it elsewhere.  Yes, they were completely within their right to do that.  That doesn’t change the fact that the club had the opportunity to be loyal to their players – and made the decision not to.

Yes, the age groups are changing, but every girl on the team was eligible to play on the team taking the bye to the 03 group.  If given that option, the majority of the team would have remained together.

So, easy for someone to pass this off as ordinary “player movement”.  Somehow, I think if D’Feeters had decided to tell all the 03 girls to look elsewhere, and had given the Black team bye to an entirely new set of girls, that you wouldn’t be so understanding.

Yes – Joey turned over this team in January, and best I can tell, no one ever said or implied he was the current coach.  But the decisions on how the bye should be handled were not determined by the current coach.  That was done by “the club” – meaning real people who made real decisions on how to manage the club and the girls who play for it.  The club had to know that the decision to strip a team of its bye to salvage byes in other age groups would not be met with overwhelming acceptance.  I am sure that the decision to let girls go was a difficult one – for the coach and everyone involved.  But the fact the decision was difficult, necessary, or in the best interest of the club, does not give them a free pass to escape criticism for their decision.

Hopefully, the girls released will find new homes that work for them – it is not a guarantee and may not be easy.  Finding a good coach (as well minimal team drama) can be a difficult process, and I think most of these girls felt like they had it at Feet.  Maybe some of the girls can still find a home with D’Feeters 03 or 04, if they still choose to do so (and I think a number of them would welcome the opportunity to work with the 04AP coach).  Best of luck to all of them!

WOW! One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Soooo, let's see who's going to be the first douchebag to try and punch holes in that.

Knowledge is power.


3.10.8
NOTE: Release: The withdrawal of a player from a roster during the current seasonal year.
Any player rostered to a team is bound to that team for the entire seasonal year unless the player requests a release or is released involuntarily. A player release shall be submitted to and approved by the NTSSA Youth Commissioner in writing on the form provided, stating the reason for the request on the release.
1. A player may be released from a team involuntarily only if the player is unable to play for one of the following reasons.
a. The player has violated rules of the U.S. Soccer Federation, USYSA, NTSSA or NTSSA Member Associations.
b. The player has moved beyond a reasonable travel distance. Determination of what constitutes a reasonable travel distance is subject to definition by NTSSA.
c. The player is injured in such a manner that the player will not be able to participate for the remainder of the season.
2. Any coach who releases a player involuntarily for any reason other than listed in 1 above may be brought before the NTSSA Competitive Committee to explain his actions. An assertion by the coach or any person with authority or assumed authority on the team, either verbally or by action, that a reasonable person would interpret to mean that the player is no longer welcome on the team may be considered an involuntary release by the coach, even if no formal steps to complete release paperwork have been taken. If the Competitive Committee finds the involuntary release was not justified or could have been avoided in the best interest of the player, the coach is subject to severe sanctions including, but not limited to, suspension from all soccer activities for a period of time to be determined by the Competitive Committee. The coach is responsible for the action of persons in authority, or with assumed authority, on the team.

OLJW wrote:Knowledge is power.


3.10.8
NOTE: Release: The withdrawal of a player from a roster during the current seasonal year.
Any player rostered to a team is bound to that team for the entire seasonal year unless the player requests a release or is released involuntarily. A player release shall be submitted to and approved by the NTSSA Youth Commissioner in writing on the form provided, stating the reason for the request on the release.
1. A player may be released from a team involuntarily only if the player is unable to play for one of the following reasons.
a. The player has violated rules of the U.S. Soccer Federation, USYSA, NTSSA or NTSSA Member Associations.
b. The player has moved beyond a reasonable travel distance. Determination of what constitutes a reasonable travel distance is subject to definition by NTSSA.
c. The player is injured in such a manner that the player will not be able to participate for the remainder of the season.
2. Any coach who releases a player involuntarily for any reason other than listed in 1 above may be brought before the NTSSA Competitive Committee to explain his actions. An assertion by the coach or any person with authority or assumed authority on the team, either verbally or by action, that a reasonable person would interpret to mean that the player is no longer welcome on the team may be considered an involuntary release by the coach, even if no formal steps to complete release paperwork have been taken. If the Competitive Committee finds the involuntary release was not justified or could have been avoided in the best interest of the player, the coach is subject to severe sanctions including, but not limited to, suspension from all soccer activities for a period of time to be determined by the Competitive Committee. The coach is responsible for the action of persons in authority, or with assumed authority, on the team.

It's great in theory however they would just tell everyone "maybe" and lead them on till June.

Cleansheets wrote:WOW! One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Soooo, let's see who's going to be the first douchebag to try and punch holes in that.

I will be the BD to take a shot at it. I hear lots of moaning and wringing of hands but I am not buying it at. I think there maybe be a lots of parents complaining, arms wrapped singing together "we want to stay together". So stop complaining and blaming on the "MAN" and get your parent group together and keep your bye. Your playing together is YOUR choice and it is YOUR choice to give it up. But I bet when push comes to shove you will find that the parents don't have your back, they just have their own. Welcome to the real world. What people say and what they will actually do are very often two different thing.

For the record I hope you guys stay together but I know you won't (and its not defeeters fault, or the coach, or NTX. It's your own)

Unfortunately, a majority of players is not sufficient. A supermajority is required - 12 minimum - to keep the bye.

As a result, the system is controlled by the clubs (who set the LH rules) and against the girls.

A simple majority would be a bold move to take "the club's" bye, but that would be doable. The problems are (1) those couple who may have decided to leave the team, (2) getting a coach and not a babysitter, and (3) those who aspire to "greater things" and realize that being involved in taking the bye from the club could end their chance of playing ECNL at D'Feeters in the future.

Challenging endeavour with the coach on board and another club's backing; all but impossible without.

go99 wrote:

Cleansheets wrote:WOW! One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Soooo, let's see who's going to be the first douchebag to try and punch holes in that.

I will be the BD to take a shot at it.  I hear lots of moaning and wringing of hands but I am not buying it at.  I think there maybe be a lots of parents complaining, arms wrapped singing together "we want to stay together".  So stop complaining and blaming on the "MAN" and get your parent group together and keep your bye.  Your playing together is YOUR choice and it is YOUR choice to give it up.  But I bet when push comes to shove you will find that the parents don't have your back, they just have their own.  Welcome to the real world.  What people say and what they will actually do are very often two different thing.  

For the record I hope you guys stay together but I know you won't (and its not defeeters fault, or the coach, or NTX.  It's your own)

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we have a winner. Douchebag numero uno!

Cleansheets wrote:

go99 wrote:

Cleansheets wrote:WOW! One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Soooo, let's see who's going to be the first douchebag to try and punch holes in that.

I will be the BD to take a shot at it.  I hear lots of moaning and wringing of hands but I am not buying it at.  I think there maybe be a lots of parents complaining, arms wrapped singing together "we want to stay together".  So stop complaining and blaming on the "MAN" and get your parent group together and keep your bye.  Your playing together is YOUR choice and it is YOUR choice to give it up.  But I bet when push comes to shove you will find that the parents don't have your back, they just have their own.  Welcome to the real world.  What people say and what they will actually do are very often two different thing.  

For the record I hope you guys stay together but I know you won't (and its not defeeters fault, or the coach, or NTX.  It's your own)

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we have a winner. Douchebag numero uno!

Thank you! I try

No you don't, it comes natural.

not at this level. it takes years of hard work and dedication to the craft.

go99 wrote:

Cleansheets wrote:WOW! One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Soooo, let's see who's going to be the first douchebag to try and punch holes in that.

I will be the BD to take a shot at it.  I hear lots of moaning and wringing of hands but I am not buying it at.  I think there maybe be a lots of parents complaining, arms wrapped singing together "we want to stay together".  So stop complaining and blaming on the "MAN" and get your parent group together and keep your bye.  Your playing together is YOUR choice and it is YOUR choice to give it up.  But I bet when push comes to shove you will find that the parents don't have your back, they just have their own.  Welcome to the real world.  What people say and what they will actually do are very often two different thing.  

For the record I hope you guys stay together but I know you won't (and its not defeeters fault, or the coach, or NTX.  It's your own)

GO is correct. This team absolutely can stay together and keep it's bye, and can even dictate which age group the bye goes to. However to do so, they have to act fast, AND they have to be 100% unified.

If you can get 100% of your parents to agree, you can fill out paperwork with NTSSA to essentially "divorce" your team from the club and become an independent team (accomplished by filing a Team Name Change form with NTSSA that is signed by a parent of 100% of the players on the NTSSA roster as of April 1, 2016). You can name the team manager, or one of the other parents as the head coach for the time being. If this is done prior to May 17th, then the new "coach" will be the one to submit the bye preference for next season. Also, as soon as name change paperwork has been filed, you can start shopping the team around for a new coach and/or club. All you need to do, is make sure that the new "coach" you specified when you changed the team name is present at the practice.

If you find a suitable new home for the team, and you can convince 75% of the current roster (again, the official NTSSA roster as of April 1, 2016), to re-sign with the team in July, you will retain ownership of the bye. If not, the bye will revert back to D'Feeters.

It is far easier said than done, but it HAS been done before, exactly as I outline above.

of course I could try it you guys way "Aww poor babies. You have truly been wronged. Is there no justice in NTX? What about the kids?" Hold hand, shed tears, and truly morn at the passing of a team. After all of the theatrics things will be exactly as they are.

OR as the kids say these days KEEP IT REAL. If you want to stay together and keep your bye band together and do it. Sure you might be done at Defeeters, may burn a few bridges, some people may not like you, or even lose a few friends. But you can't always have everything you want in life and things come at a cost.

bwgophers wrote:

go99 wrote:

Cleansheets wrote:WOW! One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Soooo, let's see who's going to be the first douchebag to try and punch holes in that.

I will be the BD to take a shot at it.  I hear lots of moaning and wringing of hands but I am not buying it at.  I think there maybe be a lots of parents complaining, arms wrapped singing together "we want to stay together".  So stop complaining and blaming on the "MAN" and get your parent group together and keep your bye.  Your playing together is YOUR choice and it is YOUR choice to give it up.  But I bet when push comes to shove you will find that the parents don't have your back, they just have their own.  Welcome to the real world.  What people say and what they will actually do are very often two different thing.  

For the record I hope you guys stay together but I know you won't (and its not defeeters fault, or the coach, or NTX.  It's your own)

GO is correct.  This team absolutely can stay together and keep it's bye, and can even dictate which age group the bye goes to.  However to do so, they have to act fast, AND they have to be 100% unified.  

If you can get 100% of your parents to agree, you can fill out paperwork with NTSSA to essentially "divorce" your team from the club and become an independent team (accomplished by filing a Team Name Change form with NTSSA that is signed by a parent of 100% of the players on the NTSSA roster as of April 1, 2016).  You can name the team manager, or one of the other parents as the head coach for the time being.  If this is done prior to May 17th, then the new "coach" will be the one to submit the bye preference for next season.  Also, as soon as name change paperwork has been filed, you can start shopping the team around for a new coach and/or club.  All you need to do, is make sure that the new "coach" you specified when you changed the team name is present at the practice.

If you find a suitable new home for the team, and you can convince 75% of the current roster (again, the official NTSSA roster as of April 1, 2016), to re-sign with the team in July, you will retain ownership of the bye.  If not, the bye will revert back to D'Feeters.

It is far easier said than done, but it HAS been done before, exactly as I outline above.

DING DING DING. Where is my Fing like button!!!

Technically it is very simple but the reality is the club just has to find the weak spot and poke. Offer the right parent the right incentive to stay within the club. "Hey we have a beautiful new ECNL spot for suzy". We are going to build this other team around sally because she is such a special talent" Sing the siren song of flattery and which one of the "majority" of the team will turn it's back on the rest.

bwgophers wrote:

go99 wrote:

Cleansheets wrote:WOW! One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Soooo, let's see who's going to be the first douchebag to try and punch holes in that.

I will be the BD to take a shot at it.  I hear lots of moaning and wringing of hands but I am not buying it at.  I think there maybe be a lots of parents complaining, arms wrapped singing together "we want to stay together".  So stop complaining and blaming on the "MAN" and get your parent group together and keep your bye.  Your playing together is YOUR choice and it is YOUR choice to give it up.  But I bet when push comes to shove you will find that the parents don't have your back, they just have their own.  Welcome to the real world.  What people say and what they will actually do are very often two different thing.  

For the record I hope you guys stay together but I know you won't (and its not defeeters fault, or the coach, or NTX.  It's your own)

GO is correct.  This team absolutely can stay together and keep it's bye, and can even dictate which age group the bye goes to.  However to do so, they have to act fast, AND they have to be 100% unified.  

If you can get 100% of your parents to agree, you can fill out paperwork with NTSSA to essentially "divorce" your team from the club and become an independent team (accomplished by filing a Team Name Change form with NTSSA that is signed by a parent of 100% of the players on the NTSSA roster as of April 1, 2016).  You can name the team manager, or one of the other parents as the head coach for the time being.  If this is done prior to May 17th, then the new "coach" will be the one to submit the bye preference for next season.  Also, as soon as name change paperwork has been filed, you can start shopping the team around for a new coach and/or club.  All you need to do, is make sure that the new "coach" you specified when you changed the team name is present at the practice.

If you find a suitable new home for the team, and you can convince 75% of the current roster (again, the official NTSSA roster as of April 1, 2016), to re-sign with the team in July, you will retain ownership of the bye.  If not, the bye will revert back to D'Feeters.

It is far easier said than done, but it HAS been done before, exactly as I outline above.

But what if there are a few parents and kids that a few other parents and kids don't want to bring along. Can they take them now and get rid of them later?

soccerjack wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

go99 wrote:

Cleansheets wrote:WOW! One of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Soooo, let's see who's going to be the first douchebag to try and punch holes in that.

I will be the BD to take a shot at it.  I hear lots of moaning and wringing of hands but I am not buying it at.  I think there maybe be a lots of parents complaining, arms wrapped singing together "we want to stay together".  So stop complaining and blaming on the "MAN" and get your parent group together and keep your bye.  Your playing together is YOUR choice and it is YOUR choice to give it up.  But I bet when push comes to shove you will find that the parents don't have your back, they just have their own.  Welcome to the real world.  What people say and what they will actually do are very often two different thing.  

For the record I hope you guys stay together but I know you won't (and its not defeeters fault, or the coach, or NTX.  It's your own)

GO is correct.  This team absolutely can stay together and keep it's bye, and can even dictate which age group the bye goes to.  However to do so, they have to act fast, AND they have to be 100% unified.  

If you can get 100% of your parents to agree, you can fill out paperwork with NTSSA to essentially "divorce" your team from the club and become an independent team (accomplished by filing a Team Name Change form with NTSSA that is signed by a parent of 100% of the players on the NTSSA roster as of April 1, 2016).  You can name the team manager, or one of the other parents as the head coach for the time being.  If this is done prior to May 17th, then the new "coach" will be the one to submit the bye preference for next season.  Also, as soon as name change paperwork has been filed, you can start shopping the team around for a new coach and/or club.  All you need to do, is make sure that the new "coach" you specified when you changed the team name is present at the practice.

If you find a suitable new home for the team, and you can convince 75% of the current roster (again, the official NTSSA roster as of April 1, 2016), to re-sign with the team in July, you will retain ownership of the bye.  If not, the bye will revert back to D'Feeters.

It is far easier said than done, but it HAS been done before, exactly as I outline above.

But what if there are a few parents and kids that a few other parents and kids don't want to bring along. Can they take them now and get rid of them later?

Technically, yes. Realistically, no. Margin for error on this is VERY small. Depending on how many were on the roster on April 1st, you can only lose 3-4 players MAX through the whole process to accomplish the move and retain control of the bye. Also, as GO pointed out, there is no margin of error in getting the 100% to sign the team name change form now. If there is ANY parent on the current team that wants to try and stay with D'Feeters and move up to the top team, they will be very unlikely to "bite the hand that feeds them" by helping the current team take the bye away from D'Feeters.

If you do have a couple of disgruntled parents who are planning to leave the team, AND look for a home at a different club than D'Feeters, you can bring those parents along by agreeing to sign any practice/guest play release that they want in exchange for them signing the team name change form. Basically, "if you don't mess up our plans, we won't mess up yours". But again, any player that is doing that up front, is one of the 3-4 max you can lose between now and July.

I even saw a boys team where a couple of players stayed signed on the roster and even to the new team as essentially a signed player so they could keep the numbers and once the bye was SET they quit

go99 wrote:I even saw a boys team where a couple of players stayed signed on the roster and even to the new team as essentially a signed player so they could keep the numbers and once the bye was SET they quit

I believe that is technically an option as well, but unless those kids are not planning to go to another competitive roster, it gets tricky because now you are talking about "backroom" agreements being in place ahead of time, and if someone wanted to cry foul on that to NTSSA or LHGCL, they'd have a pretty good case.

Let's be honest, the rules are written with the clubs in mind not the kids from contracts to byes, to releases. 75% of a roster would be difficult in a normal year. Add in the lure of the end of the bench ECNL roster spot and it will never happen. The club knows this so of course they count the players and make sure enough are either retained or convinced that the pot of gold is around the corner and it's a non issue.

I think the point that was being made is that the whole thing could have been avoided if the club wanted to but the club decided they rather recruit than develop from within. Yes it's their total prerogative to do so but it's also the public's right to call them on it for what it is.

Ah okay. I thought we were problem solving. I apologize, allow me to help.

Hey everyone defeeters was doing what it felt was in the best interest of its overall club not just a particular group. They are a horrible place full of inconsiderate meanies. Consider them called out!! You're welcome.

Oh and everything you said only applies because parents are liars. A simple coming together would tell you the exact numbers you have. Personally my kid would have been out because in the end it is always about soccer not an expensive social club. But the difference is I would have been honest with the fellow parents on the team not bs them with the I'm all in. If the teams parents have been truly honest with each other then retaining their bye should be no problem

go99 wrote:Ah okay. I thought we were problem solving. I apologize, allow me to help.

Hey everyone defeeters was doing what it felt was in the best interest of its overall club not just a particular group. They are a horrible place full of inconsiderate meanies. Consider them called out!! You're welcome.

Oh and everything you said only applies because parents are liars. A simple coming together would tell you the exact numbers you have. Personally my kid would have been out because in the end it is always about soccer not an expensive social club. But the difference is I would have been honest with the fellow parents on the team not bs them with the I'm all in. If the teams parents have been truly honest with each other then retaining their bye should be no problem

Your ivory tower honestly and understanding is what make you so loved on this forum.

I know right and I can feel the love everyday and I really like to think of it more as a bunker. My tower is reserved for philosophical pros on the "beautiful game"

I would like to apologize now before another sackless parent goes crying to a coach blaming his decisions on me instead of carrying his own weight

go99 wrote:I would like to apologize now before another sackless parent goes crying to a coach blaming his decisions on me instead of carrying his own weight

Speaking of crying, isn't it time for the yearly "Elite 04 to (insert ECNL club) rumors?  Or maybe it's not a rumor this year?  Go, care to comment on where you guys will be next week?

The rumors have already been inserted see the Liverpool defeeters thread. And we will be switching to lacrosse next week. I hear all of the clubs are fair and just

go99 wrote:The rumors have already been inserted see the Liverpool defeeters thread. And we will be switching to lacrosse next week. I hear all of the clubs are fair and just

That was a club thing and of course Hugh wanted to run the show. After everyone laughed for a while, they found out he was serious and the deal fell apart. Lacrosse is a great sport and Lee is a great coach. Good luck...