05 JDL

Maybe these OK and TXS teams are a "waste of time" to KC, but TXN had a pretty good showing in Tulsa:

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=53844&Gender=Girls&Age=12

ForReal wrote:Maybe these OK and TXS teams are a "waste of time" to KC, but TXN had a pretty good showing in Tulsa:

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=53844&Gender=Girls&Age=12

Impressive.
You dominated OK and STX at u12 just like every other age group before you has and every other one after you will do. That's development

ForReal wrote:Maybe these OK and TXS teams are a "waste of time" to KC, but TXN had a pretty good showing in Tulsa:

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=53844&Gender=Girls&Age=12

For Real though!

You lose to someone and you're not developing. You beat people you should and you aren't developing. Get a life Buddy. The obsession some of you have with talking crap about things you aren't a part of is amazing. Go worry about what YOUR daughter is doing (assuming you have one).

ColtMcVince wrote:You lose to someone and you're not developing.  You beat people you should and you aren't developing.  Get a life Buddy.  The obsession some of you have with talking crap about things you aren't a part of is amazing.  Go worry about what YOUR daughter is doing (assuming you have one).  

Or if your focus is development, how bout don't come on a public forum pounding your chest about beating teams that you should beat.

tpitty wrote:

Oooo.. The dreaded blue ? box. And on Halloween too, scary!!

KeeperCommander wrote:

tpitty wrote:

Oooo.. The dreaded blue ? box.  And on Halloween too, scary!!

Oh there is the pic. Haterade very clever. That reminds me I need to pick some up.

I was wondering when your dial-up would kick in.

Which begs the question, why are you participating in a forum titled "JDL" since you clearly are not a fan? Posting results from a JDL tournament in a JDL forum is off limits now too?

ColtMcVince wrote:Which begs the question, why are you participating in a forum titled "JDL" since you clearly are not a fan?  Posting results from a JDL tournament in a JDL forum is off limits now too?  

So now we can only participate in forums that we are fans of? Who said I wasn't a fan?

Buddy Israel wrote:

ColtMcVince wrote:Which begs the question, why are you participating in a forum titled "JDL" since you clearly are not a fan?  Posting results from a JDL tournament in a JDL forum is off limits now too?  

So now we can only participate in forums that we are fans of? Who said I wasn't a fan?

I love it.  People beg for scores in JDL and want to know how they compare to non-JDL teams.  You give them data against LH teams and they ignore it.  You then give them data against OK and TXS teams with the only commentary of North Texas having a "pretty good showing," and they don't like that either.  Not a "way to represent" or a "good job."  Says a lot about you, Buddy.

And, Buddy, as for "development," what do you expect in 2 months?

tpitty wrote:I was wondering when your dial-up would kick in.

My free trial CD was out of free minutes and I had to load another one. Ease up.

ForReal wrote:

Buddy Israel wrote:

ColtMcVince wrote:Which begs the question, why are you participating in a forum titled "JDL" since you clearly are not a fan?  Posting results from a JDL tournament in a JDL forum is off limits now too?  

So now we can only participate in forums that we are fans of? Who said I wasn't a fan?

I love it.  People beg for scores in JDL and want to know how they compare to non-JDL teams.  You give them data against LH teams and they ignore it.  You then give them data against OK and TXS teams with the only commentary of North Texas having a "pretty good showing," and they don't like that either.  Not a "way to represent" or a "good job."  Says a lot about you, Buddy.

And, Buddy, as for "development," what do you expect in 2 months?

Since you brought it up, we do not beg for scores we are asking because curiosity is getting the better of us. An yes For Real everyone on here is so enlightened that you went up and kicked ass in OK. It was a "pretty good showing" to beat all those teams the way you did. "Way to represent" the North Texas soccer community up there. Pat yourself on the back for such a "good job". Now if you would excuse me I have to go torch all the HRC signs I stole last night from your lawn.

KeeperCommander wrote:

ForReal wrote:

Buddy Israel wrote:

ColtMcVince wrote:Which begs the question, why are you participating in a forum titled "JDL" since you clearly are not a fan?  Posting results from a JDL tournament in a JDL forum is off limits now too?  

So now we can only participate in forums that we are fans of? Who said I wasn't a fan?

I love it.  People beg for scores in JDL and want to know how they compare to non-JDL teams.  You give them data against LH teams and they ignore it.  You then give them data against OK and TXS teams with the only commentary of North Texas having a "pretty good showing," and they don't like that either.  Not a "way to represent" or a "good job."  Says a lot about you, Buddy.

And, Buddy, as for "development," what do you expect in 2 months?

Since you brought it up, we do not beg for scores we are asking because curiosity is getting the better of us.  An yes For Real everyone on here is so enlightened that you went up and kicked ass in OK.  It was a "pretty good showing" to beat all those teams the way you did.  "Way to represent" the North Texas soccer community up there.  Pat yourself on the back for such a "good job". Now if you would excuse me I have to go torch all the HRC signs I stole last night from your lawn.

Obviously not looking for a compliment from you or Buddy.  Never expected that level of class from you. Just more data for you to feed your abnormal curiosity and let you judge what a "waste" these hard-working 11-year olds are.

ForReal wrote:

Buddy Israel wrote:

ColtMcVince wrote:Which begs the question, why are you participating in a forum titled "JDL" since you clearly are not a fan?  Posting results from a JDL tournament in a JDL forum is off limits now too?  

So now we can only participate in forums that we are fans of? Who said I wasn't a fan?

I love it.  People beg for scores in JDL and want to know how they compare to non-JDL teams.  You give them data against LH teams and they ignore it.  You then give them data against OK and TXS teams with the only commentary of North Texas having a "pretty good showing," and they don't like that either.  Not a "way to represent" or a "good job."  Says a lot about you, Buddy.

And, Buddy, as for "development," what do you expect in 2 months?

Sorry it took me a while to go back trying to find where anyone asked for the scores. Never found it.
And by the way, I led off by saying Impressive.
JDL does nothing more or less for development than any other league that's out there. If it did, you'd see JDL leagues popping up across the country.  But maybe NTX is just ahead of the curve.

This really isn't rocket science.  I just don't understand why people can't see the benefit of a league like this.  I have no kids in JDL so I consider myself unbiased.

It really is very simple.  Take a number of teams that have a history of competing at a high level and have them play each other multiple times.  Compare that strategy to Classic League where you have 20 teams and an extremely wide gap from top to bottom. The Classic League standings prove out exactly what some of us are saying, as the 10th place team has a negative goal differential ratio of 1:2.  

You can also look at the top of the Classic League standings and see a team that has played 9 games with 51 goals for and 2 against and another team through 9 games with 43 goals scored and 3 against.  I would contend that these two teams have not received much value at all and they are almost halfway through the season.

Maybe some of you are hung up on the fact that this new league has the name JDL.  In the end, it's just another league.  As in any league, you will have teams at the top and teams at the bottom, whether scores and standings are kept or not.  That is the nature of any league.

For those naysayers, I would pose a couple of simple questions for you.
1)  If you took the top 7 teams in Classic League and formed a separate league where each plays the other 3 times, would that benefit those players and teams, or not?
2)  If you took the bottom 7 in Classic League and formed a separate league where each plays the other 3 times, would that make for a more competitive environment for these teams?
3)  Is a 10 team Classic League better (from a competitive standpoint) than a 20 team Classic League?

Assuming people have half a brain and answered yes to the questions above, hopefully they can better understand the premise of JDL.  It's not a super league, there are players in other leagues that can easily compete in this league, and there are teams in Classic League that could beat teams in JDL.  No one will argue against any of these.

In the end JDL (or any league that consolidates) simply tries to rid itself of the 6, 7, 8 to 0 games and forces players and teams to compete at a max level each weekend.  

Some of you need to look past the three letter acronym and understand what the purpose of the league really is.

Competition breeds development and I think a consolidated league like this provides better competition on a weekly basis than any other league in the area.

slrsoccer wrote:This really isn't rocket science.  I just don't understand why people can't see the benefit of a league like this.  I have no kids in JDL so I consider myself unbiased.

It really is very simple.  Take a number of teams that have a history of competing at a high level and have them play each other multiple times.  Compare that strategy to Classic League where you have 20 teams and an extremely wide gap from top to bottom.  The Classic League standings prove out exactly what some of us are saying, as the 10th place team has a negative goal differential ratio of 1:2.  

You can also look at the top of the Classic League standings and see a team that has played 9 games with 51 goals for and 2 against and another team through 9 games with 43 goals scored and 3 against.  I would contend that these two teams have not received much value at all and they are almost halfway through the season.

Maybe some of you are hung up on the fact that this new league has the name JDL.  In the end, it's just another league.  As in any league, you will have teams at the top and teams at the bottom, whether scores and standings are kept or not.  That is the nature of any league.

For those naysayers, I would pose a couple of simple questions for you.
1)  If you took the top 7 teams in Classic League and formed a separate league where each plays the other 3 times, would that benefit those players and teams, or not?
2)  If you took the bottom 7 in Classic League and formed a separate league where each plays the other 3 times, would that make for a more competitive environment for these teams?
3)  Is a 10 team Classic League better (from a competitive standpoint) than a 20 team Classic League?

Assuming people have half a brain and answered yes to the questions above, hopefully they can better understand the premise of JDL.  It's not a super league, there are players in other leagues that can easily compete in this league, and there are teams in Classic League that could beat teams in JDL.  No one will argue against any of these.

In the end JDL (or any league that consolidates) simply tries to rid itself of the 6, 7, 8 to 0 games and forces players and teams to compete at a max level each weekend.  

Some of you need to look past the three letter acronym and understand what the purpose of the league really is.

Competition breeds development and I think a consolidated league like this provides better competition on a weekly basis than any other league in the area.

Your premise would be great - if that is really what happened.

Cut through your revisionist history, and we find that, in fact, if JDL actually WANTED to be a league of teams with a history of competing at a high level - they could have done that - but they didn't.

The 5 ECNL clubs got together to collude in order to promote their own teams / clubs, at the exclusion of clearly better teams, with the intent of consolidating talent at the Big 5, and away from smaller clubs and independents.  They did this by creating an exclusionary league (note - NOT inclusionary of the best playing nor the best developing teams), labeling it as "developmental" in an attempt to distinguish themselves as "better" than the rest.

Apparently -
- coaches not affiliated with the Big 5 don't appropriately "develop" players
- coaches affiliated with the JDL teams, by definition, develop players better than others
- players at JDL clubs, but not on the JDL teams, don't receive the same "development" as the JDL players, as they are relegated to the non-developmental league

The theory that the creation of JDL as some altruistic league allowing "the best to play the best" was dismissed months ago, when the "best" were excluded over club affiliation.

You will be assimilated...

It is not my opinion that the league constitutes "the best to play the best."  I can't be arsed to go through this entire thread, but I haven't seen many others come out and say this league is "the best playing against the best."  

However, there is no doubt that this league (or any league like it) provides better competition on a weekly basis.  Was it exclusionary, sure, no one argued that point.  Are there teams outside the league that could easily stake claim to "belonging" in this league, sure, no one argued that point.  

There are a few things the clubs that formed this league have in common.  Financial resources (some more than others) and facilities.  These are two things that are must haves when forming a league.

When putting this together, it would have been impossible to try and include every good team that doesn't belong to an ECNL club via an application process.  It's not an unknown fact that most (definitely not all) talented players tend to migrate to the big clubs around 10,11, 12 years old.  What these big clubs do offer is a more consistent and much larger talent pool to pull players from, thus giving the league a bit more stability.

You are really reaching with your "apparently" statements.  No one in their right mind would argue that Kicks don't develop good teams or players, and no one would argue that every coach with a JDL or ECNL team develop players better than others (there are some terrible coaches in that group).

I must ask, what would you do to form and league that provides a more competitive environment on a weekly basis?

The 5 ECNL clubs got together to collude in order to promote their own teams / clubs, at the exclusion of clearly better teams, with the intent of consolidating talent at the Big 5, and away from smaller clubs and independents.

This happens every year at ECNL tryouts. It is just happening sooner rather than later. --and the "better" teams/kids you speak of will either join now, or join later.

Improve competition?  There are / were multiple options (and no "separate league" was necessary):

Initial placement tournament for qualified teams into 3 brackets of 10 teams.  Or even 4-5 brackets with fewer teams.  

Coaches petition for brackets (based on returning players, tournament results) to be grouped into D1 or D2 qualifying pools - they had the entire month of August to have placement games.

Promotion / relegation in December (Plano used to do it, not sure if they are this year)


It's not complicated - the LH Board could have (or used some of their $$$ in the bank to hire some consultants) received written input from coaches - reviewed July results - selected the 6 D1 automatic teams  - and 8 contenders.  Split the contenders into 2 brackets of 4 - round robin play over 1 weekend - top 2 from each group make D1.  Relegation in December - 2 up, 2 down.

Not perfect - but better that assuming that JDL by definition provides better competition week-in, week-out.


And how is "having a facility" a "must have" for teams when forming a league?  All the independents were part of "a league" prior to JDL.  Really jumped the shark on that one (does Solar have it's own facility?  D'Feeters?  Texans?  last I check they rent facilities - as Andromeda did before the consolidation).  And, in case you forgot - selection to this league had NOTHING to do with resources or facilities.  The ONLY thing these 5 clubs had in common (and to the exclusion of everyone else) - E-C-N-L.

So don't give me this crap that JDL is about "development" (which was or was not happening before the creation of JDL), or "better competition week-in, week-out" (which could have been had through other avenues).

There was no dominance. Lonestar and hurricane teams were highly competitive. Lonestar in particular.   
From talking to Houston parents , their kids play up and didn't have a good showing.  Tulsa Tment was much more competitive than local tments.  

Buddy Israel wrote:

ForReal wrote:Maybe these OK and TXS teams are a "waste of time" to KC, but TXN had a pretty good showing in Tulsa:

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=53844&Gender=Girls&Age=12

Impressive.
You dominated OK and STX at u12 just like every other age group before you has and every other one after you will do. That's development

SickofSilliness wrote:Improve competition?  There are / were multiple options (and no "separate league" was necessary):

Initial placement tournament for qualified teams into 3 brackets of 10 teams.  Or even 4-5 brackets with fewer teams.  

Coaches petition for brackets (based on returning players, tournament results) to be grouped into D1 or D2 qualifying pools - they had the entire month of August to have placement games.

Promotion / relegation in December (Plano used to do it, not sure if they are this year)


It's not complicated - the LH Board could have (or used some of their $$$ in the bank to hire some consultants) received written input from coaches - reviewed July results - selected the 6 D1 automatic teams  - and 8 contenders.  Split the contenders into 2 brackets of 4 - round robin play over 1 weekend - top 2 from each group make D1.  Relegation in December - 2 up, 2 down.

Not perfect - but better that assuming that JDL by definition provides better competition week-in, week-out.


And how is "having a facility" a "must have" for teams when forming a league?  All the independents were part of "a league" prior to JDL.  Really jumped the shark on that one (does Solar have it's own facility?  D'Feeters?  Texans?  last I check they rent facilities - as Andromeda did before the consolidation).  And, in case you forgot - selection to this league had NOTHING to do with resources or facilities.  The ONLY thing these 5 clubs had in common (and to the exclusion of everyone else) - E-C-N-L.

So don't give me this crap that JDL is about "development" (which was or was not happening before the creation of JDL), or "better competition week-in, week-out" (which could have been had through other avenues).

Wow!  You really come across as a lover scorned in this debate.  

Let's take you post point by point.
1)  Are you really advocating that LH change the format of their league?  It's too late.  They were slow to react and it cost them many good teams.
2)  This new format is wanted because it will provide better competition?  All the while, you have been arguing that competition isn't an issue in LH as compared to JDL?
3)  This new league would require consultants to come up with a plan?  Really?
4)  You advocate coaches "petitioning" for brackets?  What?
5)  How exactly do you think these 5 clubs became ECNL clubs?  Do you not think competitive history, resources and facilities have anything to do with their inclusion in ECNL?
6)  Most teams take a little time off in July, what results would you consider during that month?

Look, we get it.  Your kid is not on a JDL team but is on a team that is highly competitive, if not the best.  I think what you may be upset about is the fact that these teams left the league you are still in, causing your team to not get the competition they desire on a weekly basis.

However, this is the set up and format that everyone plays in.  There will always be the Kicks (05), Liverpool Elite (03), Rush (04) type teams that are very good but are not part of one of the "big" clubs in girls youth soccer.  If you have a player on one of these teams, you as a parent have a decision to make when it comes time for JDL, ECNL or upcoming DA.  No one will fault you for the decision you make, but to belittle the league(s) because it hurt the quality of Classic League shows your complete bias, which in the end is just you, looking out for your own.  There is nothing wrong with that.

In case you haven't realized, the playing field isn't level.  There are clubs that can provide things to the players that other clubs can't.  It's the way it has been and it's the way it will always be.  These leagues are formed with clubs that have great depth in most, if not all age groups.  FC Dallas, Sting, Texans, Solar and Feet might not have the best team in each age group, but they will more often than not have a team that is competitive in every age group.  There will always be a team outside of these clubs that is very good, but the parents and players on those teams will have a decision to make to stay or leave at some point in time.

I get that you are passionate about this, probably because you want the best for your kid.  That is admirable and not what's being debated. However, you come across like a kid that wasn't invited to the prom, even though you are just as pretty, if not prettier than the other girls that were invited.

Times are changing, you can get on the bus or you can walk.

slrsoccer wrote:This really isn't rocket science.  I just don't understand why people can't see the benefit of a league like this.  I have no kids in JDL so I consider myself unbiased.

I for one am nor arguing the case for JDL being a bad league or stupid idea. After all its just a league. What my argument is everyone thinking its the answer. Its a great tool mind you. It should help immensely. If you take it for what its worth. The argument someone made the other day about the bottom 4 teams in JDL being better than any teams in LH is just about the dumbest comment anyone could make. Especially since one of those teams has only won 2 out of 9 games. Laughable. It needs to do something first before it has been called the best league out there. Stop arguing its the best and then hide behind "its only been 2 months attitude".

However, this is the set up and format that everyone plays in.  There will always be the Kicks (05), Liverpool Elite (03), Rush (04) type teams that are very good but are not part of one of the "big" clubs in girls youth soccer.  If you have a player on one of these teams, you as a parent have a decision to make when it comes time for JDL, ECNL or upcoming DA.  No one will fault you for the decision you make, but to belittle the league(s) because it hurt the quality of Classic League shows your complete bias, which in the end is just you, looking out for your own.  There is nothing wrong with that.

Has the rumor been put to rest or is it still out there that ECNL will pull status of clubs that eventually go DA. I heard that but didn't know if that was craziness. Any news or ground breaking developments.