DA/ECNL ridiculousness

I don't post much here anymore.  Unfortunately, this is site too often turns into directions that would have made the old Turfmonster site proud.  Lots of personality and shtick that would not exist if this were face to face.

So many here have a need to convince everyone else what is right for them.  The only decision that any of us should be worried about is what is right for US.

My daughter played for a big 4 club in Lake Highlands, ECNL (both when it was only showcase event driven, and later when it became a separate league), and Division I college soccer.  We certainly didn't spend $15K/year at any time but if that's what it would have cost, and I could afford it, I'd spend that much or more.

She wanted to play in college, but never had any aspiration to play professional or WNT soccer.

Soccer was very important to my daughter from the first time she touched a soccer ball.  Once that happened, you couldn't keep her away from one.  I never saw her any happier than she was when she played soccer.  She loved her teammates.  She has graduated from college now, but some of those players she played with at U-11, 12, and so on are still among her best friends.  To be sure, she loved winning, but with only a few exceptions, the losing wasn't that big a deal.  She was playing the game she loved.  Travelling wasn't always about seeking the better competition.  Hell, she just loved being with the team.

To be completely truthful, this wasn't entirely about my daughter.  I had a blast, and I miss watching her play in the worst way.  Personally, I don't care if the US is on our way to creating the next monster WNT.  Our family was blessed to be able to make virtually all of her games all the way through her career from Rec to College.  NOTHING made me any happier than watching her play.  But it all ends far too soon.  I certainly wasn't ready for it to end.

Her scholarship paid for the vast majority of her college.  She graduated without owing a single $ in student loans.  But make no mistake:  Even if it hadn't, and if I could afford it, I'd do it all over again.  

Individually, we have to make the most intelligent decisions about where to play, who to choose for a coach, what level to play, and of course how much you can afford.  Whether its the right direction to find next National Team player or not is way down the list compared to what is right for our own kid.  Spending a bunch of time trying to convince someone else what is right for their kid is pretty much a waste of time.  

Just my 2¢ worth!

Truth.

Ball head that's a good case scenario...sounds like things worked out nice for you....you are making me feel the love....

I just talk to parent who bitch way too much about the costs...maybe I shouldn't listen to them and read all these warm fuzzy success stories....

SIR...SIR...Those types of comments that are well thought out, concise, full of truth and benifical to all comcerned have no place on this forum.

BigboyBentley wrote:That should be the new topic if you can pay you can play. Then that cuts out alot of BS......

or if she is good enough others will be more than willing to pay (scholarship)

BigboyBentley wrote:I just need the facts not a bunch of sales people Colt45....we are now moving to U13 and both sides are playing the money game...you got ECNL and now DA. Zizou says 7 to 8k...w travel costs hotels and food....does that sound right...

Not aware of any of the 5 ECNL clubs who were charging different dues for ECNL vs. LH teams.  $3000 +/- 200 depending on the club and exactly what was included in dues vs. a-la-carte expenses.  Covers club and coaching fees, practice fields, league fees, admin fees, and typically tournament fees for ~2 tournaments during the year.  ~$400-500 on unis every 2 years (so ~$200-$250 per year)  The remaining $3500-$4000 is travel expenses and tournament fees for tourney above and beyond the 2 provided with basic club dues.

Before Sting decided to drop DA, they were telling the parents that you would pay the same club dues whether your kid was DA, ECNL, Champions League, or Lake Highlands.

NTX ECNL clubs will have 3 road trips for league play during the year, all within driving distance.  2 to Austin/Houston area + 1 to Tulsa.  Then typically 3 National Showcases, of which at least 2 will be plane trips.  Add 1 more plane trip if the team qualifies for playoffs, and for U15-U17, 1 more plane trip if your team is one of the 4 teams that makes it to the National Finals.

NTX DA teams will have 4 road trips for league play during the year.  Two driving (Austin & Houston), and 2 plane trips (Colo & KC).  My understanding was DA would have at least 2 National Showcase events as well, and playoffs.

I'm sure BigErn will correct me if any of this is wrong.

...Oh, and by the way, everybody talks about the clubs jacking up their dues... My DD is a U16 this year and her club dues were $2900. At U11, they were $2800. That's an average annual increase of 0.6% over the past 6 years. Pretty sure the CPI has been ~3x that over that time.

Right on bw.....that is what I was looking for...

bwgophers wrote:

BigboyBentley wrote:I just need the facts not a bunch of sales people Colt45....we are now moving to U13 and both sides are playing the money game...you got ECNL and now DA. Zizou says 7 to 8k...w travel costs hotels and food....does that sound right...

Not aware of any of the 5 ECNL clubs who were charging different dues for ECNL vs. LH teams.  $3000 +/- 200 depending on the club and exactly what was included in dues vs. a-la-carte expenses.  Covers club and coaching fees, practice fields, league fees, admin fees, and typically tournament fees for ~2 tournaments during the year.  ~$400-500 on unis every 2 years (so ~$200-$250 per year)  The remaining $3500-$4000 is travel expenses and tournament fees for tourney above and beyond the 2 provided with basic club dues.

Before Sting decided to drop DA, they were telling the parents that you would pay the same club dues whether your kid was DA, ECNL, Champions League, or Lake Highlands.

NTX ECNL clubs will have 3 road trips for league play during the year, all within driving distance.  2 to Austin/Houston area + 1 to Tulsa.  Then typically 3 National Showcases, of which at least 2 will be plane trips.  Add 1 more plane trip if the team qualifies for playoffs, and for U15-U17, 1 more plane trip if your team is one of the 4 teams that makes it to the National Finals.

NTX DA teams will have 4 road trips for league play during the year.  Two driving (Austin & Houston), and 2 plane trips (Colo & KC).  My understanding was DA would have at least 2 National Showcase events as well, and playoffs.

I'm sure BigErn will correct me if any of this is wrong.

...Oh, and by the way, everybody talks about the clubs jacking up their dues...  My DD is a U16 this year and her club dues were $2900.  At U11, they were $2800.  That's an average annual increase of 0.6% over the past 6 years.  Pretty sure the CPI has been ~3x that over that time.

I'll add that we played only 1 showcase at the U14 ECNL level and 1 at the U18 ECNL level. In both years we added one out of town trip so those years we actually were less than my buddies who played LHGCL who participated in Premier League, National League or Regional Premier League. We never paid $8K in a year including travel for 1 parent and often much less. We often took other kids with us as their parents opted not to travel so those families often paid even less.

As Ballhead stated, for us, it was priceless. It was all my entertainment dollars wrapped into one and I passed on many many Ranger and Cowboy tickets to watch my girls play. My oldest is now 17. She has lifelong friends, has traveled the country, played against some of the best the US has to offer and a lifetime of memories. And as it turns out, these soccer kids are actually really really good kids. Could not be happier with our experience.

I asked our U11 coach why we were in Vegas when there was more competition available locally. I thought his answer was great. He told me that we were striving to play at the highest level. The most important soccer a DD will usually play will be on the road. Be it a Showcase, Regional Play, Premier League, or National Tournament. We are extremely lucky here in NT. To play in a College Showcase or at a National Event or National League or Premier League is a regular occurrence for many teams here. To be able to travel, rest, focus and play well is a developed skill. By time time it mattered, my DD had played against SoCal Blues, Arsenal, Eclipse, PDA etc etc. She had been in hotels, traveled in vans, ran up and down the halls and been away from home. Thus, when it mattered, she performed better. The team performed better. And in the midst of this, they became friends, experienced the country and developed confidence. Priceless.

By the way, I've talked to parents from Kicks '01 who have said that in past 2 years before the AP transition, when they were playing PL/NL and went to USYSA National Finals, their expenses weren't much different to an ECNL team.

Most LH D1/D2 teams, even if they aren't in PL/NL, are playing in at least 5-6 tournaments/showcases per year, and traveling 2-3x per year to play in those.  You're still talking $4-5k per year in that case, even if you are playing for an LP, Tx Spirit, Fever, etc.

5K this year is dead on....just wanted to know outside the box for the long haul...if my kid continues to develop and it become noticeable that the challenge isn't there anymore for her then we will look at other options...w the league this year you had several teams that were in this group as well as many players playing in both LH and JDL...this will be a new look in the fall for us...I want to see how the changes affect this next rodeo.....DA will pull by its own design some of the talent in LH today...I still assume the rest underneath will still be local and be in the mix. I don't second guess the eyes are more favorable for these paths and not against it or say otherwise..I just want to see if she is playing in a few years and where we go w it if she continues to pursue the goals she has today....

BBB, well said and exactly the approach I'm taking.

BigboyBentley wrote:5K this year is dead on....just wanted to know outside the box for the long haul...if my kid continues to develop and it become noticeable that the challenge isn't there anymore for her then we will look at other options...w the league this year you had several teams that were in this group as well as many players playing in both LH and JDL...this will be a new look in the fall for us...I want to see how the changes affect this next rodeo.....DA will pull by its own design some of the talent in LH today...I still assume the rest underneath will still be local and be in the mix. I don't second guess the eyes are more favorable for these paths and not against it or say otherwise..I just want to see if she is playing in a few years and where we go w it if she continues to pursue the goals she has today....

Come again?

So, your kid is NOT happy just playing LH and ODP as you stated a while ago?  Man, the things they put in Kool-aid these days.......

Ohhh man...now he's gonna reply. Way to go.

...am I the only one thinking that BBB finally decided to go back on his meds today???

If you mean a cocktail of meth and crack....no

BigboyBentley wrote:So basically Zizou if both parents want to travel and see their kid play we are talking some serious cash...I'm just not sure that's worth it when you can drive locally and watch them play here every weekend. So outside the club fees etc etc you double the other costs...now we get into the 10K plus range depending on other tournament play etc...

Well now see if you are concerned about cost as you seem to be then you make decisions on who and how many family members are going to travel. If you choose to take others on the trip then that money is on you not the soccer.

bwgophers wrote:...am I the only one thinking that BBB finally decided to go back on his meds today???

Second

bwgophers wrote:

BigboyBentley wrote:I just need the facts not a bunch of sales people Colt45....we are now moving to U13 and both sides are playing the money game...you got ECNL and now DA. Zizou says 7 to 8k...w travel costs hotels and food....does that sound right...

Not aware of any of the 5 ECNL clubs who were charging different dues for ECNL vs. LH teams.  $3000 +/- 200 depending on the club and exactly what was included in dues vs. a-la-carte expenses.  Covers club and coaching fees, practice fields, league fees, admin fees, and typically tournament fees for ~2 tournaments during the year.  ~$400-500 on unis every 2 years (so ~$200-$250 per year)  The remaining $3500-$4000 is travel expenses and tournament fees for tourney above and beyond the 2 provided with basic club dues.

Before Sting decided to drop DA, they were telling the parents that you would pay the same club dues whether your kid was DA, ECNL, Champions League, or Lake Highlands.

NTX ECNL clubs will have 3 road trips for league play during the year, all within driving distance.  2 to Austin/Houston area + 1 to Tulsa.  Then typically 3 National Showcases, of which at least 2 will be plane trips.  Add 1 more plane trip if the team qualifies for playoffs, and for U15-U17, 1 more plane trip if your team is one of the 4 teams that makes it to the National Finals.

NTX DA teams will have 4 road trips for league play during the year.  Two driving (Austin & Houston), and 2 plane trips (Colo & KC).  My understanding was DA would have at least 2 National Showcase events as well, and playoffs.

I'm sure BigErn will correct me if any of this is wrong.

...Oh, and by the way, everybody talks about the clubs jacking up their dues...  My DD is a U16 this year and her club dues were $2900.  At U11, they were $2800.  That's an average annual increase of 0.6% over the past 6 years.  Pretty sure the CPI has been ~3x that over that time.

Per usual ... absolutely spot on Bdub! (and BTW if you didn't already know -- you are the true voice of reason, logic and clarity on this forum)

And those of us that have already had the internal discussions can confirm that club dues for DA players will be discounted + it sounds like the kids will receive comped kits ...
All of this "fuzzy math" adds up to the fact that all of us "suckas" with kids playing at the DA level may actually be paying less than you for your kid next year BBB --

Oh ... the irony!

Dues are one thing and that may be true.

From the frontier league DA website, the FCD U13 team from this past year traveled to Houston 3 times, Austin twice and Chicago twice. Assuming they are not going down and back in the same day, that's approx $500 a pop x 5 plus $1000 each for Chicago. This is all off the DA website so I'm assuming these teams also attend other out of town tournaments in the off season.

So just league stuff is $3k for dues plus $4500 for travel to league games. $7500 plus anything that happens outside of the league. No clue how much that happens, but this is a real example from last year at this age group (boys not girls).

I think trying to say paying $7500 for league play only is comparable to what is happening with LH is disingenuous and using fuzzy math to make something look different than it is.

I heard Rush 04 spent a couple weeks in italy and went to Vegas etc. if you are comparing DA to that, you may have a point, but it's certainly not the norm for LH teams to shell out anywhere near $7500 for league play.

ballhead wrote:I don't post much here anymore.  Unfortunately, this is site too often turns into directions that would have made the old Turfmonster site proud.  Lots of personality and shtick that would not exist if this were face to face.

So many here have a need to convince everyone else what is right for them.  The only decision that any of us should be worried about is what is right for US.

My daughter played for a big 4 club in Lake Highlands, ECNL (both when it was only showcase event driven, and later when it became a separate league), and Division I college soccer.  We certainly didn't spend $15K/year at any time but if that's what it would have cost, and I could afford it, I'd spend that much or more.

She wanted to play in college, but never had any aspiration to play professional or WNT soccer.

Soccer was very important to my daughter from the first time she touched a soccer ball.  Once that happened, you couldn't keep her away from one.  I never saw her any happier than she was when she played soccer.  She loved her teammates.  She has graduated from college now, but some of those players she played with at U-11, 12, and so on are still among her best friends.  To be sure, she loved winning, but with only a few exceptions, the losing wasn't that big a deal.  She was playing the game she loved.  Travelling wasn't always about seeking the better competition.  Hell, she just loved being with the team.

To be completely truthful, this wasn't entirely about my daughter.  I had a blast, and I miss watching her play in the worst way.  Personally, I don't care if the US is on our way to creating the next monster WNT.  Our family was blessed to be able to make virtually all of her games all the way through her career from Rec to College.  NOTHING made me any happier than watching her play.  But it all ends far too soon.  I certainly wasn't ready for it to end.

Her scholarship paid for the vast majority of her college.  She graduated without owing a single $ in student loans.  But make no mistake:  Even if it hadn't, and if I could afford it, I'd do it all over again.  

Individually, we have to make the most intelligent decisions about where to play, who to choose for a coach, what level to play, and of course how much you can afford.  Whether its the right direction to find next National Team player or not is way down the list compared to what is right for our own kid.  Spending a bunch of time trying to convince someone else what is right for their kid is pretty much a waste of time.  

Just my 2¢ worth!

Bravo!!! It goes by way too fast.

De Plane De Plane BigEm back from Fantasy Island