Question about FDL

Do your homework rexie,

Ask some people that participated in jdl and tcl if they think it was worth it. Bige has been spewing his silliness for a while on this board and it's usually just propaganda. He's like neidermeyer from animal house. It doesn't matter who sanctions the league if it's the same ol clubs pushing the smack. Typical bige fallacy, is bringing up state cup. Bunch of big club lh teams filled with ecnl and da players. Biggest joke going. They've managed to corrupt a simple tournament and turn it into a meaningless event.

Big Ern wrote:

DeltaTauChi wrote:

Big Ern wrote:

Jugglemaster wrote:The league will fail just like TCL did.  Money grab to pay for DA. That iis no pathway to. DA   If they move someone to DA it will be from ECNL.   TCL was the pathway to ECNL.  Most promotions came from LH D1 not TCL.  TCL was around two years now it’s gone.  Now they call it ECNL2.  

Hey Rexie --

Sounds like you're all set thanks to some great insight and level headed feedback from a couple of smart folks here.  Also sounds like you're relatively new here so just in case you haven't deduced this on your own, posts like this from people like juggle are as close to the definition of worthless drivel as you'll find.  This one in particular is almost 100% baseless nonsense from a guy that apparently has very little knowledge of anything having to do with youth soccer in NTX.  

Only thing I'd add to DTX's comment is that if you're not at FCD (Solar, for example), I'd say that costs could potentially be much less than $2k per year for league travel.  Considering that you'd just have the 6 day trips in total (2x to Houston, Austin and OKC), you could get away with gas and meals for ~$75 each trip (depending on what you're driving and where you're eating) ...

Good luck out there!

If that turns out to be the case, then it'll be a pleasant surprise if you assume $2k going in. (As opposed to assuming minimal travel costs and then getting hit with $2k - which is a common cause of parent disillusionment on here). I have no idea what the showcase plans are for FDL teams, in addition to the league travel, and what that will do for travel costs compared to an LH team.  Just trying to give some realistic advice to the newbie.

No doubt DTX --

The FDL kids can plan on ~3 Showcases per year -- one out of state at Silverlakes or Vegas (significant cost but fantastic exposure events) and 2 in state (DIGC, FCD Showcase).  Also ... winner of the league has automatic bid to USYS Regionals.

Aw BigE, think you and I have had this argument a few weeks back. FDL teams going to Silverlakes or Vegas is great for Mom and Dad to boast about at the watercooler, but will be a huge waste of time and money for 90%+ of those families. 90%+ of those FDL kids aren't going to go play soccer at a school farther than a days drive from home. They will get all of the exposure from the schools that will really matter to them at DIGC and FCD Showcase.

So true Foxy.

Right on Delra

Big, did you create FDL, you have a overwhelming interest in such untested waters.

DeltaTauChi wrote:

Big Ern wrote:

DeltaTauChi wrote:

Big Ern wrote:

Jugglemaster wrote:The league will fail just like TCL did.  Money grab to pay for DA. That iis no pathway to. DA   If they move someone to DA it will be from ECNL.   TCL was the pathway to ECNL.  Most promotions came from LH D1 not TCL.  TCL was around two years now it’s gone.  Now they call it ECNL2.  

Hey Rexie --

Sounds like you're all set thanks to some great insight and level headed feedback from a couple of smart folks here.  Also sounds like you're relatively new here so just in case you haven't deduced this on your own, posts like this from people like juggle are as close to the definition of worthless drivel as you'll find.  This one in particular is almost 100% baseless nonsense from a guy that apparently has very little knowledge of anything having to do with youth soccer in NTX.  

Only thing I'd add to DTX's comment is that if you're not at FCD (Solar, for example), I'd say that costs could potentially be much less than $2k per year for league travel.  Considering that you'd just have the 6 day trips in total (2x to Houston, Austin and OKC), you could get away with gas and meals for ~$75 each trip (depending on what you're driving and where you're eating) ...

Good luck out there!

If that turns out to be the case, then it'll be a pleasant surprise if you assume $2k going in. (As opposed to assuming minimal travel costs and then getting hit with $2k - which is a common cause of parent disillusionment on here). I have no idea what the showcase plans are for FDL teams, in addition to the league travel, and what that will do for travel costs compared to an LH team.  Just trying to give some realistic advice to the newbie.

No doubt DTX --

The FDL kids can plan on ~3 Showcases per year -- one out of state at Silverlakes or Vegas (significant cost but fantastic exposure events) and 2 in state (DIGC, FCD Showcase).  Also ... winner of the league has automatic bid to USYS Regionals.

Aw BigE, think you and I have had this argument a few weeks back.  FDL teams going to Silverlakes or Vegas is great for Mom and Dad to boast about at the watercooler, but will be a huge waste of time and money for 90%+ of those families.  90%+ of those FDL kids aren't going to go play soccer at a school farther than a days drive from home.  They will get all of the exposure from the schools that will really matter to them at DIGC and FCD Showcase.

Cue bige's slow cousin lil Timmy to sell you on fcd and it's grand plan for fdl not to be confused with jdl but often referred to as DA2 in the right crowd.

Big Ern wrote:

DeltaTauChi wrote:

Big Ern wrote:

Jugglemaster wrote:The league will fail just like TCL did.  Money grab to pay for DA. That iis no pathway to. DA   If they move someone to DA it will be from ECNL.   TCL was the pathway to ECNL.  Most promotions came from LH D1 not TCL.  TCL was around two years now it’s gone.  Now they call it ECNL2.  

Hey Rexie --

Sounds like you're all set thanks to some great insight and level headed feedback from a couple of smart folks here.  Also sounds like you're relatively new here so just in case you haven't deduced this on your own, posts like this from people like juggle are as close to the definition of worthless drivel as you'll find.  This one in particular is almost 100% baseless nonsense from a guy that apparently has very little knowledge of anything having to do with youth soccer in NTX.  

Only thing I'd add to DTX's comment is that if you're not at FCD (Solar, for example), I'd say that costs could potentially be much less than $2k per year for league travel.  Considering that you'd just have the 6 day trips in total (2x to Houston, Austin and OKC), you could get away with gas and meals for ~$75 each trip (depending on what you're driving and where you're eating) ...

Good luck out there!

If that turns out to be the case, then it'll be a pleasant surprise if you assume $2k going in. (As opposed to assuming minimal travel costs and then getting hit with $2k - which is a common cause of parent disillusionment on here). I have no idea what the showcase plans are for FDL teams, in addition to the league travel, and what that will do for travel costs compared to an LH team.  Just trying to give some realistic advice to the newbie.

No doubt DTX --

The FDL kids can plan on ~3 Showcases per year -- one out of state at Silverlakes or Vegas (significant cost but fantastic exposure events) and 2 in state (DIGC, FCD Showcase).  Also ... winner of the league has automatic bid to USYS Regionals.

BigEgo - always the wealth of information and broad generalizations.

If you want to know how many showcases your coach plans on attending, you should ask them.

Just as BigEgo over generalized on his DA cost assessment (the Texans parents I know dispute his claim about how much cheaper DA was than ECNL when including week-long travel tournament costs - how much for San Diego alone BigE?), he is firing out of his arse again.

Coaches across teams and clubs have a wide variety of showcases and number they plan on attending - some well more than the  "~3 Showcases per year -- one out of state" that BigEgo is selling.

6 day trips. Think about that for a second. Drive 3+ hours to Houston, Austin and OKC, each way, twice. To play ONE game. Why? Thanks but I’ll take a hard pass on that.

I don’t care who the coach is or what kind of foot skills they have. If it’s fancy footwork you are after, find yourself a good coach to work with your daughter on the side and save yourself an entire day schlepping back and forth to an out of town soccer game.

ColtMcVince wrote:6 day trips.  Think about that for a second.  Drive 3+ hours to Houston, Austin and OKC, each way, twice.  To play ONE game.  Why?  Thanks but I’ll take a hard pass on that.  

This assumes a 20-game league schedule.  If it is only a 15-game schedule, it would be 4-5 day trips.

How does that differ from what TCL did?

ECNL / ECNL2 will likely run a 16-game schedule without Texans - so an overnight to Houston, overnight to San Antonio / Austin, and day trip / overnight to Tulsa.

So over a 9-month period, 4-5 day trips vs. 3 overnighters (or a day trip to Tulsa).  Hotel cost would easily push the ECNL league play cost over the FDL league play cost.

Mornin' Fellas!

SoSy -- This ^ is cute ... Always thinking I'm 'firing out of my arse'.  The info I posted about FDL came both directly from an FDL coach and from the 13 page FDL informational document put out by USYS, but keep on keepin' on Sir!

DTX -- I didn't expect the "watercooler" reference from you (should leave that one to the bottom feeders) ... Regardless, yes, the national showcases are pricey, but can't say I agree with you regarding them being a "huge waste".  Having been at Silverlakes, DIGC and FCD Showcase in the past year, I can attest to the fact that the exposure isn't even close.  Witnessed 20+ coaches watching kids at a single DPL match in Norco, while I saw the coaches at the other two events combine for a grand total of single digits ... total (and I don't mean watching a match ... I mean attending the events at all).  Given that the FDL (Frontier) kids will be matched up DPL kids (Southwest), I'd bet there will be plenty of exposure next time as well.  But based on your contention, that won't matter because those kids wouldn't accept an offer to a Cal St school anyway ... just too far from home, right?

Foxydaddy -- Yes.  State Cup has gone downhill, but it's been that way from some time at U13+ hasn't it?  Just not much to do with guest players or corruption ... but more due to the fact that most of the top talent has been playing in the ECNL.  And talk about fallacy ... DA players, propaganda -- c'mon now Sir ...
How 'bout you ask one of the parents from the FCD 04 Blue team how many guest players they used this year.  That, or you could ask me how many were used when my kid won it ... might throw a bit of a wrench into your 'corruption' theory.

Juggler   -- I appreciate that you are under the impression that I feel "strongly" about the FDL.  However, I don't like the circus shenanigans going on between the ECNL and GDA any more than you all do ... I think all of these new leagues are ridiculous.  What would be more accurate to say is that I feel strongly about squelching all of the malarkey that is written on here from people like yourself regarding these leagues, events, etc. that you guys have zero knowledge of and don't like, so come on here to muck it and mislead the innocents like ole' Rexie here.

She said it herself in the opening post of this thread ... "my daughter is interested but I have received some negative feedback about it from parents and coaches. I heard that it may not last more than a year"

... no bueno guys.

ColtMcVince wrote:6 day trips.  Think about that for a second.  Drive 3+ hours to Houston, Austin and OKC, each way, twice.  To play ONE game.  Why?  Thanks but I’ll take a hard pass on that.   

Kinda like playing for DTS in LH and JDL, and having 3 LH games at Chinn Chapel and 3 JDL games at FSP in the same year.

Big Ern wrote:Mornin' Fellas!

SoSy -- This ^ is cute ... Always thinking I'm 'firing out of my arse'.  The info I posted about FDL came both directly from an FDL coach and from the 13 page FDL informational document put out by USYS, but keep on keepin' on Sir!

DTX -- I didn't expect the "watercooler" reference from you (should leave that one to the bottom feeders) ... Regardless, yes, the national showcases are pricey, but can't say I agree with you regarding them being a "huge waste".  Having been at Silverlakes, DIGC and FCD Showcase in the past year, I can attest to the fact that the exposure isn't even close.  Witnessed 20+ coaches watching kids at a single DPL match in Norco, while I saw the coaches at the other two events combine for a grand total of single digits ... total (and I don't mean watching a match ... I mean attending the events at all).  Given that the FDL (Frontier) kids will be matched up DPL kids (Southwest), I'd bet there will be plenty of exposure next time as well.  But based on your contention, that won't matter because those kids wouldn't accept an offer to a Cal St school anyway ... just too far from home, right?

Foxydaddy -- Yes.  State Cup has gone downhill, but it's been that way from some time at U13+ hasn't it?  Just not much to do with guest players or corruption ... but more due to the fact that most of the top talent has been playing in the ECNL.  And talk about fallacy ... DA players, propaganda -- c'mon now Sir ...
How 'bout you ask one of the parents from the FCD 04 Blue team how many guest players they used this year.  That, or you could ask me how many were used when my kid won it ... might throw a bit of a wrench into your 'corruption' theory.

Juggler   -- I appreciate that you are under the impression that I feel "strongly" about the FDL.  However, I don't like the circus shenanigans going on between the ECNL and GDA any more than you all do ... I think all of these new leagues are ridiculous.  What would be more accurate to say is that I feel strongly about squelching all of the malarkey that is written on here from people like yourself regarding these leagues, events, etc. that you guys have zero knowledge of and don't like, so come on here to muck it and mislead the innocents like ole' Rexie here.

She said it herself in the opening post of this thread ... "my daughter is interested but I have received some negative feedback about it from parents and coaches. I heard that it may not last more than a year"

... no bueno guys.

odd.  I didn't know USYS determined the number of total showcases each FDL team would be allowed to attend.  Could you point out to us where USYS says "FDL kids can plan on ~3 Showcases per year -- one out of state at Silverlakes or Vegas"

and last time I checked, there are multiple FDL coaches - some of which may be planning more than 3 showcases with one out of state

(but I wouldn't expect anything less of you than to take one coach's approach and use that as a generalization for all FDL teams)

Big Ern wrote:Mornin' Fellas!

SoSy -- This ^ is cute ... Always thinking I'm 'firing out of my arse'.  The info I posted about FDL came both directly from an FDL coach and from the 13 page FDL informational document put out by USYS, but keep on keepin' on Sir!

DTX -- I didn't expect the "watercooler" reference from you (should leave that one to the bottom feeders) ... Regardless, yes, the national showcases are pricey, but can't say I agree with you regarding them being a "huge waste".  Having been at Silverlakes, DIGC and FCD Showcase in the past year, I can attest to the fact that the exposure isn't even close.  Witnessed 20+ coaches watching kids at a single DPL match in Norco, while I saw the coaches at the other two events combine for a grand total of single digits ... total (and I don't mean watching a match ... I mean attending the events at all).  Given that the FDL (Frontier) kids will be matched up DPL kids (Southwest), I'd bet there will be plenty of exposure next time as well.  But based on your contention, that won't matter because those kids wouldn't accept an offer to a Cal St school anyway ... just too far from home, right?

Foxydaddy -- Yes.  State Cup has gone downhill, but it's been that way from some time at U13+ hasn't it?  Just not much to do with guest players or corruption ... but more due to the fact that most of the top talent has been playing in the ECNL.  And talk about fallacy ... DA players, propaganda -- c'mon now Sir ...
How 'bout you ask one of the parents from the FCD 04 Blue team how many guest players they used this year.  That, or you could ask me how many were used when my kid won it ... might throw a bit of a wrench into your 'corruption' theory.

Juggler   -- I appreciate that you are under the impression that I feel "strongly" about the FDL.  However, I don't like the circus shenanigans going on between the ECNL and GDA any more than you all do ... I think all of these new leagues are ridiculous.  What would be more accurate to say is that I feel strongly about squelching all of the malarkey that is written on here from people like yourself regarding these leagues, events, etc. that you guys have zero knowledge of and don't like, so come on here to muck it and mislead the innocents like ole' Rexie here.

She said it herself in the opening post of this thread ... "my daughter is interested but I have received some negative feedback about it from parents and coaches. I heard that it may not last more than a year"

... no bueno guys.

again with the gross generalizations - "I know 2 teams that didn't over the course of a couple years so it must not be happening"

Funny SoSy ... Being in your line o' work, one would think you'd know that specifically identifying a single team wouldn't be construed as a "gross generalization".  Of course some teams are using guest players silly ... I'm simply pointing out that in two of the last three years (and I'm sure there are plenty more), the '04 State Cup Champions used a grand total of zero guest players ... which, one would think, would be a proper counter to the whole, "state cup. Bunch of big club lh teams filled with ecnl and da players. Biggest joke going. They've managed to corrupt a simple tournament and turn it into a meaningless event." argument, now wouldn't it?

And just saw that you asked about SD ... thanks Sir.

Not sure on cost for that one yet, but we're going Griswold style as we do for most events like this -- Make 'em family vacas.  Driving out this time ... couple campus visits, Grand Canyon, Joshua Tree, PCH -- nice lil' trip.  Many of the other families in the same boat do the same with these showcase events ... makes 'em a bit more economical.

Big Ern wrote:

DTX -- I didn't expect the "watercooler" reference from you (should leave that one to the bottom feeders) ...  Witnessed 20+ coaches watching kids at a single DPL match in Norco,

Well, Duh. Coaches from a bunch of CA schools watching good players from SoCal, at a tournament in SoCal, because those SoCal kids are likely to attend those schools because they are within a days drive of their home.

Big Ern wrote: while I saw the coaches at the other two events combine for a grand total of single digits ... total (and I don't mean watching a match ... I mean attending the events at all).  

No doubt that DA and ECNL showcases blow the others out of the water when it comes to coach attendance, but my personal experience with the better regional showcases is quite different from yours. The year that my DD played in TCL, her team averaged ~10 coaches per game at the Lonestar Showcase, and 5+ Coaches per game at DIGC and FCD. The difference being those coaches were from TX/OK/LA/AK schools that the kids were realistically likely to attend.

Big Ern wrote: Given that the FDL (Frontier) kids will be matched up DPL kids (Southwest), I'd bet there will be plenty of exposure next time as well.  But based on your contention, that won't matter because those kids wouldn't accept an offer to a Cal St school anyway ... just too far from home, right?

For 90%+ of those kids, you are absolutely correct there BigE. Might there be 1 or 2 FDL kids a year from NTX that end up making a connection with a school outside of TX/OK/LA/AK at Silverlakes or Vegas, and eventually accept a scholly to play there? Sure. But for the other 50 or so FDL kids that attend those showcases in those age groups, it's a complete waste of time and money. Kids will be a lot more likely to go far away from home for a chance to go to a "destination" school like UCLA or USC or Cal or Stanford, but not so much for Cal St. Bakersfield, or Chino St., or the Cali D2/D3 schools, because if they can get a scholly at one of those places, they can probably get one at a similar school in TX/OK/LA/AK, that offers similar education, campus atmosphere, and cost, all while being a lot closer to home where they can see family and friends, and family and friends can come see them play.

The numbers support this my friend. Go look at the College Commitment lists from Feet/FCD/Solar/Sting/Texans from the last 3-4 years. Even if you include the ECNL/DA rosters, you'll struggle to find more than 10-15% of those commits going to schools outside of TX/OK/LA/AK. Remove the kids from the main ECNL rosters, and you'll struggle to find much more than 5%. Add in the LH commitment list if you want, the story is the same. The Non-ECNL rosters are where the FDL kids will be coming from. The kids from those rosters are going predominantly to non-Power 5 D1 schools, D2, and D3 schools. Those kids aren't criss-crossing the country to play for schools that fall into that category outside of driving distance from DFW. Sorry, but it's just not happening.

Yes, BigEgo, being in my line of work, I know that pointing out that 2 teams in 3 years did not use guest players is not enough to counter much of anything, let alone Foxy's over-generalization in the opposite direction (though we can agree no DA players were used in the making of these State Cup "teams").

In addition, Foxy didn't limit her comments to State Cup winners (and the use of guest players on State Cup "teams" has widely been discussed on the board).

Well ... I can't argue with much of this ^.  As I've mentioned in the past, Bluto knows his stuff.

SickofStupidity wrote:Yes, BigEgo, being in my line of work, I know that pointing out that 2 teams in 3 years did not use guest players is not enough to counter much of anything, let alone Foxy's over-generalization in the opposite direction (though we can agree no DA players were used in the making of these State Cup "teams").

In addition, Foxy didn't limit her comments to State Cup winners (and the use of guest players on State Cup "teams" has widely been discussed on the board).

All this fighting over foxy is enough to make a girl blush. I feel like I'm the bachelorette only my choices are dumb and dumber.

BigE, you know your soccer but I’d like to challenge your economics acumen. Driving to the west coast with multiple stops along the way, and turning a 3-4 day father daughter trip in to what sounds like a multi-week vacation does not seem to make anything “more economical”. The gas, the hotels, the food - that stuff adds up ya know. Not sure going this route appeases the cost conscious. Forget the fact that most of us have jobs (at least I think that’s the case - meth man excluded). It may be fun to turn a trip out West in to a vacation, but not really seeing this as a valid point for all showcase type tournaments.

Thanks everyone for all of your responses. Now I need to go back and read and reread everything! Have a good day!

In all seriousness, you would be better served by telling us what age group your dd is and asking for coach recommendations in that group. The coach is the most important variable in this equation not the club or the league. The right coach will take a vested interest in your dd. The clubs just want your money.

Foxysoccermom wrote:

SickofStupidity wrote:Yes, BigEgo, being in my line of work, I know that pointing out that 2 teams in 3 years did not use guest players is not enough to counter much of anything, let alone Foxy's over-generalization in the opposite direction (though we can agree no DA players were used in the making of these State Cup "teams").

In addition, Foxy didn't limit her comments to State Cup winners (and the use of guest players on State Cup "teams" has widely been discussed on the board).

All this fighting over foxy is enough to make a girl blush. I feel like I'm the bachelorette only my choices are dumb and dumber.

So you're saying there's a chance!?!?!?

Foxysoccermom wrote:In all seriousness, you would be better served by telling us what age group your dd is and asking for coach recommendations in that group. The coach is the most important variable in this equation not the club or the league. The right coach will take a vested interest in your dd. The clubs just want your money.

Foxy is wrong a whole lot, but 100% spot on here.

rexie wrote:Thanks everyone for all of your responses. Now I need to go back and read and reread everything! Have a good day!

Rexie,

Do your research. Be objective. Keep your BS meter on. Don't forget that you are the parent.

Many different ways to define and extract "value" from a select youth sports journey, and everybody's definition of what constitutes "good value" is different (sometimes, drastically so).

You've got to figure out what defines value for you and your kid, and then try to choose a path that matches up well with that. From my experience, the families that follow the statements I listed above, tend to be the ones that come out the other side with the highest satisfaction, whatever path they ended up choosing.

We play for FCD and she has been on a LH team for the past few years. We are happy with her current coach and team but we heard through the grapevine about the FDL team starting up so she was interested. We are familiar with the FDL coach and have only heard good things.

I wasn't sure if FDL was replacing something or just a new league. I didn't know if it was considered a "step up" from LH or equal. We have been happy with LH and team but curious about what else is out there