State of Refs

Coach&Ref wrote:

Way to dump on your fellow Refs...

Where do you suppose the young Ref's you spoke badly of learn and become better Refs??

I have Ref'd with you before and you do not "always" do the older games... You mention how other Ref's are bad in so many ways, but say that you are a good Ref. Sounds like the Coach in you. Meaning: you try to Ref like you would like to see Refs do it as a coach. And the few times I've been in your crew, I never seen you huddle both teams up before the game. You are very correct in that the ARs are very important and never get the positve credit, only the negative..

Just know that at least 1 in 3 games the coaches AND the parent's here in txsoccer think you sucked.... Just like the rest of the Refs

I have no idea who you are and when and where you have reffed with me. Obviously, I was not started out reffing at the level I said as most refs do not. I actually don't know one ref who was ever immediately certified that started reffing at a higher level, so what you are saying is technically correct, but now wrong. I don't accept games under that level if you "know me". The only caveat to that is that if I am a standby and needed for a u12 or u14 game that no one has shown up for, so if that is the case you are talking about, then there you go. Also, I may be needed to take a lower level game in tournaments, just like I have seen grade 6 or grade 4s do on occasion.

If you have reffed with me, then you know that what I said is EXACTLY how I ref. There has almost NEVER been a coach that has been happy with a game or ref if the coach and parents are just that type that likes to blame a ref for everything and if you have ever Centered, then I think you should know that. As far as your 1 in 3 games record is concerned, that is probably the best thing you can say about me given how many coaches and parents want to blame the refs for the outcome. I challenge you to find me a ref who has a record of reffing games that all parents and coaches think they have done a great job every time. When I line for other refs, I hear almost EVERY game from someone about how bad the center sucked, so that is really a good record for a Center! If you know me, you would know that I have even reffed against the club I coached for and the coach I knew very well said that after the game, he thought it was well reffed, even though they lost on both occasions. Also, I have been asked to and reffed games between teams that absolutely HATED each other because of my style and there hasn't been any problems. I would also like to ask you how many games have you reffed with me that a fight has broken out or there has been ANY incident where I had to break up two players when I was Centering.

I have developed my philosophy over the years on how I ref now because I have both seen and done some of the things I have mentioned. I was never the ref to pull out the cards immediately in my early days, but I was the one who "let the kids play". I found that didn't work for the reasons I gave. That's what led me to change my tactics.

As far as "dumping on my fellow refs" is concerned, let me address the teenagers and grade 9s first. I think being a teen ref is awesome. They love the game and want to experience it in a different manner. They can make some money while doing what they enjoy. The problem with them arises when they get 35-40yo men and women screaming at them for bad calls. They are taught to respect their elders, yet are put in positions that give them ultimate power on the pitch. What they say or do is the law and nothing can change that. I hope you can see the catch 22. A lot of times they get severely rattled and start making even worse calls or let the coach and parents influence them. It takes a STRONG personality to be that young and control a game. This is why a lot of teen refs quit. They can't handle the parents and coaches. This is why I give them instructions before the match that ALWAYS includes the following, "If you hear any remarks directed at you, then raise your flag, call me over and tell me. I will deal with it." I don't allow ANY of my teen ARs get abused. For the most part, this has worked with some success. I have seen a lot of teen refs just not want to report any snide remarks made to them where I can hear them.

As far as the old fat refs are concerned, I'd like to ask you a question. "When have you seen these types of refs reffing a higher level game on a large pitch that get up and down the pitch with the older boys/girls?" I sure haven't seen it. I see them reffing the young ages where the pitch is small and they hardly have to leave the center circle. They also walk to set plays. I'm betting most parents can back me up on this one. I'm not saying they shouldn't be out there, but I'm just letting the parents know what they probably are seeing and why they might be getting frustrated.

Remember, I am just giving my opinion on why parents may be feeling what they are, especially at the younger competitive ages and that as their kids get older, the refs will be more experienced (in general) and will overall be better than what they may be experiencing now. You may have a different opinion, but I'd like you to chime in on the original poster's comments as a fellow ref and give some solace to these parents as to what they may be experiencing from your point of view.

soccersounder, I forgot to address two points you made. First I never said "I" was a good ref. Go re-read my post. I said that a "good ref" will establish a rapport with the team and coach before and during the game. I went on to just give an example of how I try to accomplish this.

Also, the other big issue is that you don't need to be speaking about what other refs think about me. If you knew any better, you would ALWAYS speak for yourself and NEVER for anyone else. You won't get far in any business if you go into your boss and say, "Well, I'm not the only one who thinks this way or everyone else thinks so too!" Speak only for yourself and not for others.

I appriciate your response.

You ask a question above, my response:

I believe it falls on the Assignor.. I see plenty of 20 something Refs out at PPL. And plenty of the, as you call them, old farts in Classic League. The Assignor knows the age of these Refs and needs to get out and assess... Then make some changes and shuffle his Ref Deck

soccerman771 wrote:For the record here as a fellow referee, it's easy for people to dump on us. You really should know that we really don't care to have the parent's input about foul recognition or which way a throw-in should go, or why that wasn't a card on their dd. We don't care because it only congests the game and we hear all kinds of stuff about that and almost all of the input given is incorrect. Heck, I heard a coach ask for a red card for too many players on the field after a water break the other day. Funny stuff.

For those of you that like to complain about referees - do you also hold your coaches to the same standard of coaching? When they put players in the wrong positions or try bad strategies that don't work and you lose the game because of it, do you make sure they hear you from the sidelines?

Try to learn the game and enjoy watching them play and develop as players and human beings. Stop worrying so much about "bad calls" and wins and losses. In the end, those things don't mean near as much to the kids as your support of them on the field...

/rant

coachr wrote:I'll say there are a lot of moron parents that don't know the rules but I'll also say you sound like a douche.

Blank77 wrote:

coachr wrote:I'll say there are a lot of moron parents that don't know the rules but I'll also say you sound like a douche.

Hey coachr - my new avatar is just for you

coachr wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

coachr wrote:I'll say there are a lot of moron parents that don't know the rules but I'll also say you sound like a douche.

Hey coachr - my new avatar is just for you

Guess I better call Saul!

coachr wrote:

soccerman771 wrote:For the record here as a fellow referee, it's easy for people to dump on us. You really should know that we really don't care to have the parent's input about foul recognition or which way a throw-in should go, or why that wasn't a card on their dd. We don't care because it only congests the game and we hear all kinds of stuff about that and almost all of the input given is incorrect. Heck, I heard a coach ask for a red card for too many players on the field after a water break the other day. Funny stuff.

For those of you that like to complain about referees - do you also hold your coaches to the same standard of coaching? When they put players in the wrong positions or try bad strategies that don't work and you lose the game because of it, do you make sure they hear you from the sidelines?

Try to learn the game and enjoy watching them play and develop as players and human beings. Stop worrying so much about "bad calls" and wins and losses. In the end, those things don't mean near as much to the kids as your support of them on the field...

/rant

I'll say there are a lot of moron parents that don't know the rules but I'll also say you sound like a douche.

soccerman771 wrote: Heck, in WC 2010 we had Nigel De Jong karate kick a guy 5 feet in front of the referee in the World Cup final and only get a yellow.

Blank77 wrote:

soccerman771 wrote: Heck, in WC 2010 we had Nigel De Jong karate kick a guy 5 feet in front of the referee in the World Cup final and only get a yellow.

You'll have to forgive me as I am new to soccer and my only real experience is LHGCL, so karate kicking a player is foul - even a card? Wow, who knew?

Blank77 wrote:

soccerman771 wrote: Heck, in WC 2010 we had Nigel De Jong karate kick a guy 5 feet in front of the referee in the World Cup final and only get a yellow.

You'll have to forgive me as I am new to soccer and my only real experience is LHGCL, so karate kicking a player is foul - even a card? Wow, who knew?

Coach&Ref wrote:

Way to dump on your fellow Refs...

Where do you suppose the young Ref's you spoke badly of learn and become better Refs??

I have Ref'd with you before and you do not "always" do the older games... You mention how other Ref's are bad in so many ways, but say that you are a good Ref. Sounds like the Coach in you. Meaning: you try to Ref like you would like to see Refs do it as a coach. And the few times I've been in your crew, I never seen you huddle both teams up before the game. You are very correct in that the ARs are very important and never get the positve credit, only the negative..

Just know that at least 1 in 3 games the coaches AND the parent's here in txsoccer think you sucked.... Just like the rest of the Refs

As far as the old fat refs are concerned

soccerman771 wrote:For the record here as a fellow referee, it's easy for people to dump on us. You really should know that we really don't care to have the parent's input about foul recognition or which way a throw-in should go, or why that wasn't a card on their dd. We don't care because it only congests the game and we hear all kinds of stuff about that and almost all of the input given is incorrect. Heck, I heard a coach ask for a red card for too many players on the field after a water break the other day. Funny stuff.

For those of you that like to complain about referees - do you also hold your coaches to the same standard of coaching? When they put players in the wrong positions or try bad strategies that don't work and you lose the game because of it, do you make sure they hear you from the sidelines?

Try to learn the game and enjoy watching them play and develop as players and human beings. Stop worrying so much about "bad calls" and wins and losses. In the end, those things don't mean near as much to the kids as your support of them on the field...

/rant

Its Me wrote:We're losing more and more refs each year. Just got email from manager that my sons U-19 Classic League game has been cancelled for this Sunday due to lack of referees?

Sooner than later wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

soccerman771 wrote: Heck, in WC 2010 we had Nigel De Jong karate kick a guy 5 feet in front of the referee in the World Cup final and only get a yellow.

You'll have to forgive me as I am new to soccer and my only real experience is LHGCL, so karate kicking a player is foul - even a card? Wow, who knew?

10sDad wrote:Here is the NTX girls Academy version.....
Of course, there was no foul called here...

Coach&Ref wrote:

10sDad wrote:Here is the NTX girls Academy version.....
Of course, there was no foul called here...

Just some advice. You probably need to be more careful or exclude those versions, because even though you obscured the faces, the numbers are visible as well as a few other factors that could easily identify the player(s) involved. Also, these are not adults, so it probably would exacerbate the situation even further.

I just don't want you caught up in a massive flame war attack for this. It's just my 2 cents.

That pic is less likely to start a fight than you calling people flamers cause they fight.

Coach&Ref wrote:

That pic is less likely to start a fight than you calling people flamers cause they fight.

What does that even mean?

coachr wrote:

Coach&Ref wrote:

That pic is less likely to start a fight than you calling people flamers cause they fight.

What does that even mean?