What's wrong with NTX Soccer?

Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.

Geez. Where to even begin?

The fact that we rank 8 year old teams?  

PM me if you need to be anonymous - no worries.

wilatnus wrote:The fact that we rank 8 year old teams?  

Bingo...   Its actually the fact that the Club scene, in the past confined to U11 and above, has now crept down to the U7, U8 level. The fact that leagues even play U8 games with three referees is an absolute joke. It flies completely in the face of all this so-called "development" that everyone supposedly holds dear.

I can easily recall all the promises and agreements made when the Academy system was put into place.... It was a clear turning point... the sharks were let into the tidal pool... but they promised not to eat anything.... that lasted about 2 years before the feeding frenzy commenced.

Slakemoth wrote:

wilatnus wrote:The fact that we rank 8 year old teams?  

Bingo...   Its actually the fact that the Club scene, in the past confined to U11 and above, has now crept down to the U7, U8 level. The fact that leagues even play U8 games with three referees is an absolute joke. It flies completely in the face of all this so-called "development" that everyone supposedly holds dear.

I can easily recall all the promises and agreements made when the Academy system was put into place.... It was a clear turning point... the sharks were let into the tidal pool... but they promised not to eat anything.... that lasted about 2 years before the feeding frenzy commenced.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Are you saying the academy program is a bad idea? While it does have its issues, I know from personal experience that there is no way my DD plays select without academy. While she did have fun and developed relationships in rec soccer, her development plateaued. It wasn't until she went to a club team did she really get better, as well as educating her parents (both never played soccer) on what was needed for her development.

She has turned into a very good player with a love for the game in the academy model. She loves watching and learning about soccer by watching pro soccer on TV. This was something she wasn't interested in until academy.

In our home association, the only players that would be able to play select soccer would be the ones who were lucky enough to be chosen in lottery to a team with a good coach at age 4. My DD wouldn't have made it into select in that system and definitely wouldn't have fallen in love with the sport like now.

There are things wrong with the system. 11v11 on full sized pitches are just one of the few. Small sided games is a better environment for development IMO, but the best competition plays 11v11 and that is also needed as the player gets better.

I've come to the conclusion there's really not a whole lot wrong with NTX soccer.

I used to be solidly in the bomb throwing camp. When DD was u10 and we were playing 11v11 on high school stadium fields I was one the main public naysayers about NTX soccer.

A few years later, after having seen a good bit of soccer around the country, I think we're doing pretty good.

South Texas doesn't start 11v11 till much later and haven't seen a STX team yet at age group that has better first touch, better soccer IQ or better individual skill on display than the top teams in NTX. So what did 8v8 do for them?

Socal is widely thought of as the top soccer area in the country. Having seen them up close a couple times now, couple things stand out:

1) They start 11v11 around the same time we do
2) They have about the same percentage of top teams that play anything other than direct, warp-speed soccer. A small few...same as us. Outside of those few, their top teams look like clones of ours. Physical, athletic, individually skilled, high work rate. Yes. Beautifully flowing possession soccer? Not so much.

IMO anything wrong with NTX soccer these days is a U.S. soccer issue not specific to NTX.

I would say the only problem I have with NTX soccer is the sheer number of teams that are nothing more than paychecks.

This could be stopped by having academies hold tryouts like academies do overseas. I cant just show up at La Mesia and enroll my kid because I can write a check. Have some standards, based on age specific capabilities and target skills.

The issue with STX and most other parts of the country isnt the fact that they play 8v8 until U13, its the simple fact that we get them started here about 2-3 years sooner than the rest of the country, SOCAL being the exception.

They very simply play Rec soccer until U9. my DD has been with an academy coach/skills coach since... well, probably to long to say. I have an 04 niece that started "academy training" last year in STX. She would have a hard time right now playing against the better 06 squads we have here just based on her skill set.

frankly? ....money. why not have hundreds of teams if parents are willing to spend big dollars enrolling kids who have minimal skill? I have seen teams play that have no business playing in "select" soccer, but the reality is that 99 percent of all of these kids wont be pros. so why blame the clubs for providing a service that a market obviously wants?

Magic! wrote:Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.

If I had a magic wand it would be easy. For me, it all starts with funding and club structure. If I were to start a club and funding wasn't an issue (ridiculous, I know), here are the fundamentals of how it would run.

• The club has a unified philosophy including coaching assignments, player assignments, evaluation, training curriculum, playing style, formation, etc.

• The coaches work for the club and are assigned to a team by the club. They don't recruit players for their team, but can recommend players for evaluation by the club--no more silos--we operate as a club

• Coaches are assigned to 3 teams max

• A coach would not coach the same team of players more than 2 years before they're handed off to another coach. I want coaches specialized in developing players in a certain age range similar to teachers who sepecialize in elementary, middle or high school.

• I would have 3 teams in each age group for boys and 3 teams for girls. No more. No less. No objectives to grow in size or earnings.

• Each team would be designated A, B or C

• The parents would sign a contract with the club, not with the team and relinquish any ability to choose their coach

• Players are assigned to teams based on their abilities and train and play with players of similar ability

• Players can easily be moved up or down teams or out of the club based on their performance

• I would have 1 training complex, owned by the club and it's a comprehensive training complex with outdoor and indoor training areas as well as fitness areas, storage for training equipment, locker rooms, lounge for parents, meeting rooms with audio/video equipment

• Since funding was handled by my magic wand, I'm leaning towards no payment required at all by parents. Maybe I'd setup some nominal fees as initial registration or uniforms or something, and parents would have to pay for any travel, but it would be nearly free other than gas, tolls, player equipment

I'm sure there's lots of holes in that stuff, and it can only work with a magic wand or a really dedicated rich person.

soccerdad1969 wrote:

Slakemoth wrote:

wilatnus wrote:The fact that we rank 8 year old teams?  

Bingo...   Its actually the fact that the Club scene, in the past confined to U11 and above, has now crept down to the U7, U8 level. The fact that leagues even play U8 games with three referees is an absolute joke. It flies completely in the face of all this so-called "development" that everyone supposedly holds dear.

I can easily recall all the promises and agreements made when the Academy system was put into place.... It was a clear turning point... the sharks were let into the tidal pool... but they promised not to eat anything.... that lasted about 2 years before the feeding frenzy commenced.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Are you saying the academy program is a bad idea? While it does have its issues, I know from personal experience that there is no way my DD plays select without academy. While she did have fun and developed relationships in rec soccer, her development plateaued. It wasn't until she went to a club team did she really get better, as well as educating her parents (both never played soccer) on what was needed for her development.

She has turned into a very good player with a love for the game in the academy model. She loves watching and learning about soccer by watching pro soccer on TV. This was something she wasn't interested in until academy.

In our home association, the only players that would be able to play select soccer would be the ones who were lucky enough to be chosen in lottery to a team with a good coach at age 4. My DD wouldn't have made it into select in that system and definitely wouldn't have fallen in love with the sport like now.

There are things wrong with the system. 11v11 on full sized pitches are just one of the few. Small sided games is a better environment for development IMO, but the best competition plays 11v11 and that is also needed as the player gets better.

Small sided games being better for development is garbage...

Yes kids need to be involved in small sided play which they often are in practices, but avoiding 9v9 and 11v11 entirely until select age is pointless.

North Texas teams regularly beat the best of small sided clubs everywhere from South Texas to Kansas to the east coast. Also, SoCal considered on par or even better than North Texas starts 9v9 and 11v11 at the same pace as us.

I think that the fact that the two best areas are also the areas avoiding locking kids into small sided games until puberty pretty much rules that argument out as crap.

silentparent wrote:frankly? ....money. why not have hundreds of teams if parents are willing to spend big dollars enrolling kids who have minimal skill? I have seen teams play that have no business playing in "select" soccer, but the reality is that 99 percent of all of these kids wont be pros. so why blame the clubs for providing a service that a market obviously wants?

I agree. There is no question that the big clubs make a lot of money off the volume of kids playing academy soccer.  However, why should the number of kids exposed to "professional" coaching be artificially limited?  Who can say whether a relatively unskilled and seemingly non-athletic child at age 9 won't DEVELOP into a great soccer player in the future. Even if she doesn't become an "elite" player, does that mean that the effort and expense to allow her to try was wasted? Can anyone say that restricting access to the club system and forcing kids to play at the Y with volunteer parent coaches would be a benefit to these "unworthy" 9 year-olds?

Rather than artificially restrict access to the system, why not do a better job as consumers to make sure that a club delivers what it promises?  For my money, I want to make sure my daughter is getting a proper soccer education that allows her to enjoy the game and play to her potential.  Why should anyone else care how much I chose to spend of my money to give her that?

I'd find a way to eliminate the back room deals and promises, the favoritism, mom's or dad's involved at the coaching level with kid on same team - equal, fair, honest, open - for ALL.

Expectations clear and upfront and words kept.

......you said it was magic wand.

This is the stupidest thread ever.

You are all in control of your daughters soccer destiny. Stop blaming everyone else and the "system" for your inadequacies...

How about this to make NTX soccer better: Everyone go pass in the back yard with your daughter for 20 minutes a night and her first touch will get amazingly better... Wow, what a f-ing concept.

I would like to see a system similar to what they have in other parts of the country put into place in North Texas where there is a mid-level tier between Recreational and the most competitive select leagues.  I've looked at North Carolina and Colorado and they both have a competitive system that is one step down from the Premier level that has professional coaches but allows a little less time commitment (ie fewer tournaments and practice days and a little longer off-season) and mostly importantly costs less than the Elite league.  I think you'd draw in most of the truly select players for the top teams in the club but still allow developmental players to progress with knowledgable coaches.  Those later bloomers could move up in level at a later point if the desire and skills are there. The Elite players would still move on to ECNL teams for those clubs in that system.  I think we are missing a tier in the progression between Rec and Select.  And the answer is not just "that's what Academy is for".  Even the Academy ages would be divided into Recreational, "Challenge" and Classic like they do in North Carolina for example.

Me.

In a word, "Parents."

The fact we have parents ranking and discussing the merits of 8 year old win/loss records is the biggest detriment to development in NTX. These same parents pull their kids from one team to the next to find a better ranked team in the FBR, and conclude because a team is ranked high, it must be a good place for my kid. The reality is "teams" mean nothing until you are at least 15. The focus of the parents is totally screwed up, based upon a general observation of this forum, and it hinders the development of players.


As US Soccer suggests:

1. Kids at U10 should play no more than 20 games per year and there should be no scores, standings or post season playoffs. ( What would we do without the FBR?)

2. May attend a few tournaments per year where no results are compiled.

The focus should be on "your kid" alone and not her team. Who cares about how good her team is?

But, carry on ranking, arguing over guest players, team results etc, as it is fun reading and entertaining to the desk jockeys among us.

RunsLikeWind wrote:In a word, "Parents."

The fact we have parents ranking and discussing the merits of 8 year old  win/loss records is the biggest detriment to development in NTX.  These same parents pull their kids from one team to the next to find a better ranked team in the FBR, and conclude because a team is ranked high, it must be a good place for my kid.  The reality is "teams" mean nothing until you are at least 15.  The focus of the parents is totally screwed up, based upon a general observation of this forum, and it hinders the development of players.  


As US Soccer suggests:

1.  Kids at U10 should play no more than 20 games per year and there should be no scores, standings or post season playoffs.  ( What would we do without the FBR?)

2.  May attend a few tournaments per year where no results are compiled.  

The focus should be on "your kid" alone and not  her team.  Who cares about how good her team is?  

But, carry on ranking, arguing over guest players, team results etc, as it is fun reading and entertaining to the desk jockeys among us.  

Again.. bogus...

Why do kids have to wait until the age of 15 to learn competition, how to win and lose. Guess what... life IS competition.

Sure it should be kept in perspective, and this is the parents job... but there is nothing wrong with letting kids who WANT to compete in a win/loss system have at it. If you don't want to keep score stay in rec. If you think wins/losses and scores are the problem, don't put so much WEIGHT toward it. That doesn't mean it should be banished.

Yes parents can BE a problem but this whole discussion is silly. There is NO UTOPIAN system of soccer that doesn't have disadvantages.

Can offer a suggestion to get this back on track...

I wasn't exactly asking "what can your club do make your DD the best player in NTX". No doubt the truly great players out there work harder than most and earn every accolade.

But more like, what are the things that your club does, or doesn't do - that cause you and your spouse to lay in bed and talk soccer late at night?

Magic! wrote:Can offer a suggestion to get this back on track...

I wasn't exactly asking "what can your club do make your DD the best player in NTX".   No doubt the truly great players out there work harder than most and earn every accolade.

But more like, what are the things that your club does, or doesn't do - that cause you and your spouse to lay in bed and talk soccer late at night?

Me

OK Magic, my club doesn't do anything to cause me to talk soccer at night. However, my DD does in many ways.

weatherbug wrote:I would like to see a system similar to what they have in other parts of the country put into place in North Texas where there is a mid-level tier between Recreational and the most competitive select leagues.  I've looked at North Carolina and Colorado and they both have a competitive system that is one step down from the Premier level that has professional coaches but allows a little less time commitment (ie fewer tournaments and practice days and a little longer off-season) and mostly importantly costs less than the Elite league.  I think you'd draw in most of the truly select players for the top teams in the club but still allow developmental players to progress with knowledgable coaches.  Those later bloomers could move up in level at a later point if the desire and skills are there. The Elite players would still move on to ECNL teams for those clubs in that system.  I think we are missing a tier in the progression between Rec and Select.  And the answer is not just "that's what Academy is for".  Even the Academy ages would be divided into Recreational, "Challenge" and Classic like they do in North Carolina for example.

Is that not what we already have?
. ECNL is truly select, most competitive
. LHGCL is mid tier
. PPL, APL & Rec

The catch is they all cost approximately the same except true rec.

Lefty wrote:

weatherbug wrote:I would like to see a system similar to what they have in other parts of the country put into place in North Texas where there is a mid-level tier between Recreational and the most competitive select leagues.  I've looked at North Carolina and Colorado and they both have a competitive system that is one step down from the Premier level that has professional coaches but allows a little less time commitment (ie fewer tournaments and practice days and a little longer off-season) and mostly importantly costs less than the Elite league.  I think you'd draw in most of the truly select players for the top teams in the club but still allow developmental players to progress with knowledgable coaches.  Those later bloomers could move up in level at a later point if the desire and skills are there. The Elite players would still move on to ECNL teams for those clubs in that system.  I think we are missing a tier in the progression between Rec and Select.  And the answer is not just "that's what Academy is for".  Even the Academy ages would be divided into Recreational, "Challenge" and Classic like they do in North Carolina for example.

Is that not what we already have?  
. ECNL is truly select, most competitive
. LHGCL is mid tier
. PPL, APL & Rec

The catch is they all cost approximately the same except true rec.  

I do agree that LHGCL and PPL etc are at different levels of competitiveness but I don't think the structure is that different. PPL & APL teams pay the same to their clubs as the LHGCL teams and put in as many practices for the same length of the year.

I'd like to see pricing like this for different levels of competitiveness and time commitment.

http://www.rapidsyouthsoccer.org/Default.aspx?tabid=273810

weatherbug wrote:I'd like to see pricing like this for different levels of competitiveness and time commitment.  

http://www.rapidsyouthsoccer.org/Default.aspx?tabid=273810

+1 billion, exactly what should be done here..