Re: What's wrong with NTX Soccer?

by InaB 13/09/13, 12:26 pm

[quote="bwgophers"][quote="4-3-3"]

quote]
lol!

Hilarious. Didn't know you were a comedian pitchdweller! Thanks for the laugh.
[/quote]
Well if that's what you're going to do, I'm just going to take my ball and go home!!! (That way, I can brag about playing "possession" soccer, and no one can dispute it...)[/quote]

OK Pitch, am I the only one who caught the humor.

by pitchdweller 13/09/13, 12:36 pm

by pitchdweller 13/09/13, 12:38 pm

by Guest 13/09/13, 12:48 pm

I can know which club those parents are currently with, but will let the masses guess. Hahaha

by the7wolf 13/09/13, 05:41 pm

This reminds me of the question, "why is Kim Kardashian famous?"

by Guest 13/09/13, 05:59 pm

Two words.. DAT ___! Haha

by Uncle Numanga 17/09/13, 05:20 pm

Nothing is wrong with soccer in NTX if your kid is good.

by Cmon_Man 17/09/13, 05:27 pm

Brainwashed by a scholarship are we?

by Uncle Numanga 17/09/13, 10:48 pm

Cmon_Man wrote:Brainwashed by a scholarship are we?

Huh?

by Cmon_Man 17/09/13, 11:01 pm

Meaning you have often posted issues with NTX soccer....does a college scholarship change your perspective?

by Uncle Numanga 18/09/13, 12:36 pm

I don't recall ever complaining about NTX soccer. My dd had a fine experience but that could be because she stayed with the same team from U-little until graduating. She had good coaches and some marginal ones but was always happy on her team. Never wanted to look somewhere else. Now she's onto her next experience and likes that choice as well.

My comment about nothing being wrong with NTX soccer if your kid is good, is just what it says. If your kid is good, likes her team and gets playing time on a good team, then NTX soccer is great. Travel to fun places (Disneyworld, San Diego, etc.) meeting kids from all over the country and if your team sticks together, making friends that will last a lifetime. If you're forced to look at a new team every year, it's got to be tough.

And yes, a college scholarship is nice.

by Cmon_Man 18/09/13, 01:29 pm

Uncle Numanga wrote:I don't recall ever complaining about NTX soccer. My dd had a fine experience but that could be because she stayed with the same team from U-little until graduating. She had good coaches and some marginal ones but was always happy on her team. Never wanted to look somewhere else. Now she's onto her next experience and likes that choice as well.

My comment about nothing being wrong with NTX soccer if your kid is good, is just what it says. If your kid is good, likes her team and gets playing time on a good team, then NTX soccer is great. Travel to fun places (Disneyworld, San Diego, etc.) meeting kids from all over the country and if your team sticks together, making friends that will last a lifetime. If you're forced to look at a new team every year, it's got to be tough.

And yes, a college scholarship is nice.

It sounds like your dd/you had a good/smooth ride in NTX. My dds and bbs are “good” and I am not saying I think NTX is horrible. We have had our bumps, but on the whole I am pleased with our experience thus far. That said- I believe there are several important improvements that can be made, regardless of my dds talent level.

by Uncle Numanga 18/09/13, 04:07 pm

There are always important improvements to be made in all sports. Having the guts to do it is a different story. The Oakland A's are one example of someone doing it.

by NTXSjunkie 24/09/13, 09:07 am

Magic! wrote:Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.

Basically the big things that are wrong:

1. Concentration is on winning and not developing players
2. Fields are too large for players and only caters to the fast kid
3. Big clubs have to much power due to $$$

So, now I'll elaborate:

1. Everyone is way to worried about winning every game. Honestly, how many of us are going to remember how successful we were at the youth level? Especially when our kids are only 10 years old. It's kind of crazy to put so much emphasis on winning a game at this young. Is it fun to win? Sure, but wouldn't you rather your child learn how to play the game before winning becomes a huge factor?

I've been a U6 games and have seen parents going crazy because their team is losing! Seriously... the leagues don't even keep score at this age! To much emphasis is put on keeping score. In other countries where soccer is very good they don't keep score till the U14 age group, only have 3-4 age groups at most (U10,U12,U14,U18), and only have 1-2 games a month at most. Their youth programs also only practice twice a week... yet they constantly put out players like C. Ronaldo, Messi, Rooney, and other players. Here in the states the best player we've put out is Clint Dempsey or Landon Donovan... yet our youth teams play 2-3 games a week, and practice 5-6 times a week.... hmm somethings not working.

2. The fields do not cater to making players better. For some reason we want to get to 11 v 11 as early as we can here. I'm sure if some people could have it their way, we'd be playing 11 v 11 at 5 yeas old! By having the fields so large you cater only to the fast kid. They are successful because they can just run past everyone. Where this is good for them, it really hurts them. When they get older the game is about so much more than speed. They can have a coach sit there and tell them this, but when the child is successful doing what they do... are they going to listen to the coach? No.

Having the fields so large also doesn't cater to the kid that may be a little heavier-set at a young age. Some children don't grow into their body until they get older... we call that puberty. You lose close to half of the talent pool because kids that aren't fast or as athletic at a young age get frustrated and quit. In fact, these kids generally become better technical players because at a young age they have to learn how to play the game in order to compete with the kids that fast.

3. The big clubs have to much power. With all their $$$$ they dictate what happens in the NTX area. We need someone to step in that will level out the playing field. We're starting to get to a point where the big clubs will be playing themselves each week: Texans Red v Texans Black or FC Dallas Red-White-White vs FC Dallas Red-White-Blue. It's going to be stupid seeing this.

by NTXSjunkie 24/09/13, 09:15 am

Uncle Numanga wrote:I don't recall ever complaining about NTX soccer. My dd had a fine experience but that could be because she stayed with the same team from U-little until graduating. She had good coaches and some marginal ones but was always happy on her team. Never wanted to look somewhere else. Now she's onto her next experience and likes that choice as well.

My comment about nothing being wrong with NTX soccer if your kid is good, is just what it says. If your kid is good, likes her team and gets playing time on a good team, then NTX soccer is great. Travel to fun places (Disneyworld, San Diego, etc.) meeting kids from all over the country and if your team sticks together, making friends that will last a lifetime. If you're forced to look at a new team every year, it's got to be tough.

And yes, a college scholarship is nice.

A college scholarship is nice, but have you ever calculated how much soccer costs for just one year?

Team fees: $3,000/year
Tournament: $500/tournament (food, hotel, entry fee)
Cleats: $100/pair
Gloves: $100+ (for GKs only)

With a basic team participating in 3 tournaments a year you're between $4,500-$5,000 a year for soccer. Now multiply that by 8 years (if they start playing first year of club) that's between $36,000-$40,000!

Add in those teams that go to 5+ tournaments a year, or those players that play ODP as well... jeez.

You could save that $4,500-$5,000 a year for soccer and just pay for your child's school! Or, they could get an academic scholarship, and now you've got a nice graduation present for them when they graduate college to help them get started in life! Facts are <1% of youth athletes get scholarships and play in college. And roughly 1% of those get to the pro's...

by Gunner9 24/09/13, 09:28 am

NTXSjunkie wrote:
Magic! wrote:Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.
Basically the big things that are wrong:

1. Concentration is on winning and not developing players
2. Fields are too large for players and only caters to the fast kid
3. Big clubs have to much power due to $$$

So, now I'll elaborate:

In other countries where soccer is very good they don't keep score till the U14 age group, only have 3-4 age groups at most (U10,U12,U14,U18), and only have 1-2 games a month at most. Their youth programs also only practice twice a week...

This is a myth that continues to get perpetuated on here. In fact, the top academies like La Masia train just about every day and play a match on the weekend. These are the programs producing the top players.

The size of the field is a legitimate concern. Some top academies are still playing 7v7 at U12 on a 44x54 pitch.

by SolarPower00 24/09/13, 10:03 am

NTXSjunkie wrote:
Magic! wrote:Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.
Basically the big things that are wrong:

1. Concentration is on winning and not developing players
2. Fields are too large for players and only caters to the fast kid
3. Big clubs have to much power due to $$$

You nailed it....those are the big 3 problems
Agreed with the elaboration too.

by socceroverload 24/09/13, 01:34 pm

SolarPower00 wrote:
NTXSjunkie wrote:
Magic! wrote:Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.
Basically the big things that are wrong:

1. Concentration is on winning and not developing players
2. Fields are too large for players and only caters to the fast kid
3. Big clubs have to much power due to $$$
You nailed it....those are the big 3 problems
Agreed with the elaboration too.

I would agree as well. I also propose that 1 & 3 are so tightly coupled they are almost the same.

The clubs are in it to make $$$, in order to make more $$$ the clubs must build a successful reputitaion. More success means more people wanting their DD/BB to be part of the club. The only measurements for a clubs "success" that I've seen are related to the win/loss records. So, the more "success" a club has the more popular it becomes, the more power it can weild over its patrons.

Maybe we've just not found the right club yet, but in my utopia my DD would play for a club that is interested in developing the complete player.

What we've found is that $3k a year buys you 2 tactical training session per week. Technical (skills) training, well that's an add-on; physical conditioning, you'll need to find that somewhere else; mental/emotional toughness, sorry... not on the memu; Nutrition/lifestyle education, nope.. not happening. I guess the assumption is when your kid reached 12 they'd already completed their PHD in soccer so there's no need to focus on anything beyond the tactics which the club wishes to deploy.

In addition to the win/loss records maybe the sanctioning bodies should develop a system which evaluates the clubs based upon (both in theory and practice) how well they develop complete players.
Does the club have a fitness/injury prevention program in place? Is it included in the dues? What % of the clubs players participate in the program?
Does the club offer technical training that is included in the dues?
and the list goes on.... The measurements should be based upon what the club has on paper and how well the programs are implemented, NOT based upon player evaluations.

Consumers would then be able to make a more informed decission as to where they want to spend their $$$. Club A has a great win/loss record and no real development program... Just what I'm looking for so Johnny can be on a winning team. Club B has an average win/loss but ranks excellent for developing players, maybe that's where I want to be.

by Guest 24/09/13, 03:24 pm

socceroverload wrote:
SolarPower00 wrote:
NTXSjunkie wrote:
Magic! wrote:Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.
Basically the big things that are wrong:

1. Concentration is on winning and not developing players
2. Fields are too large for players and only caters to the fast kid
3. Big clubs have to much power due to $$$
You nailed it....those are the big 3 problems
Agreed with the elaboration too.
I would agree as well. I also propose that 1 & 3 are so tightly coupled they are almost the same.

The clubs are in it to make $$$, in order to make more $$$ the clubs must build a successful reputitaion. More success means more people wanting their DD/BB to be part of the club. The only measurements for a clubs "success" that I've seen are related to the win/loss records. So, the more "success" a club has the more popular it becomes, the more power it can weild over its patrons.

Maybe we've just not found the right club yet, but in my utopia my DD would play for a club that is interested in developing the complete player.

What we've found is that $3k a year buys you 2 tactical training session per week. Technical (skills) training, well that's an add-on; physical conditioning, you'll need to find that somewhere else; mental/emotional toughness, sorry... not on the memu; Nutrition/lifestyle education, nope.. not happening. I guess the assumption is when your kid reached 12 they'd already completed their PHD in soccer so there's no need to focus on anything beyond the tactics which the club wishes to deploy.

In addition to the win/loss records maybe the sanctioning bodies should develop a system which evaluates the clubs based upon (both in theory and practice) how well they develop complete players.
Does the club have a fitness/injury prevention program in place? Is it included in the dues? What % of the clubs players participate in the program?
Does the club offer technical training that is included in the dues?
and the list goes on.... The measurements should be based upon what the club has on paper and how well the programs are implemented, NOT based upon player evaluations.

Consumers would then be able to make a more informed decission as to where they want to spend their $$$. Club A has a great win/loss record and no real development program... Just what I'm looking for so Johnny can be on a winning team. Club B has an average win/loss but ranks excellent for developing players, maybe that's where I want to be.

It would be interesting if anyone had the stats on how many national team players have come out of NTX in the last five years and what clubs they came from. Maybe if they tracked that and the players that got college scholarships and the clubs they were from, that would give you some idea of whether or not the club can develop individual players that can move on past High school.

You could then ignore the National Championships, etc from clubs as the TEAM doesn't matter.

by Cmon_Man 24/09/13, 11:43 pm

Gunner9 wrote:
NTXSjunkie wrote:
Magic! wrote:Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.
Basically the big things that are wrong:

1. Concentration is on winning and not developing players
2. Fields are too large for players and only caters to the fast kid
3. Big clubs have to much power due to $$$

So, now I'll elaborate:

In other countries where soccer is very good they don't keep score till the U14 age group, only have 3-4 age groups at most (U10,U12,U14,U18), and only have 1-2 games a month at most. Their youth programs also only practice twice a week...

This is a myth that continues to get perpetuated on here. In fact, the top academies like La Masia train just about every day and play a match on the weekend. These are the programs producing the top players.

The size of the field is a legitimate concern. Some top academies are still playing 7v7 at U12 on a 44x54 pitch.

I have to admit I am not well educated on what other nations are doing in their youth programs, but regardless how/why would there be any issues/concerns with youth playing a game or two a week? I guess I just don't get the downside?

by oldboot 25/09/13, 06:29 am

Cmon_Man wrote:
Gunner9 wrote:
NTXSjunkie wrote:
Magic! wrote:Specifically, the Clubs in NTX....what's wrong with the system, how would you change your club if you could?

Basically, wave a magic wand and tell me how you would right the wrongs.
Basically the big things that are wrong:

1. Concentration is on winning and not developing players
2. Fields are too large for players and only caters to the fast kid
3. Big clubs have to much power due to $$$

So, now I'll elaborate:

In other countries where soccer is very good they don't keep score till the U14 age group, only have 3-4 age groups at most (U10,U12,U14,U18), and only have 1-2 games a month at most. Their youth programs also only practice twice a week...

This is a myth that continues to get perpetuated on here. In fact, the top academies like La Masia train just about every day and play a match on the weekend. These are the programs producing the top players.

The size of the field is a legitimate concern. Some top academies are still playing 7v7 at U12 on a 44x54 pitch.
I have to admit I am not well educated on what other nations are doing in their youth programs, but regardless how/why would there be any issues/concerns with youth playing a game or two a week? I guess I just don't get the downside?

Here is one example of what is done in Europe:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Note: they practice 3xs a week and play 1x a week.

by Guest 25/09/13, 06:30 am

The downside is the number of touches on the ball is reduced in game play as opposed to a well organized and active training session. Take La Messia for example (love watching game highlights of those boys on BarcaTV), they train basically daily to varying degrees of course and play fewer games as youth than our kids do.

As an example, SDL season recently started there were teams that played 5-6 games in a span of two weekends, yet practiced only twice between those two weekends. The amount of time a player spends with a ball at their feet in a game is not even comparable to what it would be in a practice session (for even the most dominate of players, forget about the weaker ones).

I love watching my DD play just as much as the next guy, but would gladly trade the current model for more practice time.

by Gunner9 25/09/13, 08:14 am

oldboot wrote: Here is one example of what is done in Europe:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Note: they practice 3xs a week and play 1x a week.

3x a week through age 12. Then they train virtually ever day like other top academies.

The key is in van der Wiel's comment, "You do things again and again and again, then you repeat it some more times."

The guys that came through Sao Paulo and Santos will tell you the same thing. One of the issues we have here is that repetition is not a sexy enough sell to the parents. They'd rather pay a guy to teach 17 fancy moves in an hour. I can't remember the last time I saw a helicopter in a Champions League game.

by oldboot 25/09/13, 08:40 am

Gunner9 wrote:
oldboot wrote: Here is one example of what is done in Europe:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Note: they practice 3xs a week and play 1x a week.
3x a week through age 12. Then they train virtually ever day like other top academies.

The key is in van der Wiel's comment, "You do things again and again and again, then you repeat it some more times."

The guys that came through Sao Paulo and Santos will tell you the same thing. One of the issues we have here is that repetition is not a sexy enough sell to the parents. They'd rather pay a guy to teach 17 fancy moves in an hour. I can't remember the last time I saw a helicopter in a Champions League game.

My point from the article was really focused on younger players - in response to the comment about SDL academy teams that played 5-6 games around 2 practices.

I don't think there is much debate that parents can be un-informed and make silly choices about what will help their child develop as a soccer player, but the larger point of the NYT article is that America can't compete, because our system doesn't compete with what the rest of the world does. If we look at other athletic activities where we do compete, we will find the same grueling practice schedules and systems that focus on practice and repetition.

On the other hand, do we want an American system that encourages young players to skip college in favor of a training system where one in thousands will emerge to play at the highest level? The idea of my DD becoming good enough to play in college (at any level), while receiving a college education seems like a better bet to me. I love the fact that former professional players who have coached my daughter, tell her she must get good grades if she wants to play at the college level. How many washed-out minor league baseball players regret that they took the minor league farm system route instead of a college scholarship?

by Uncle Numanga 26/09/13, 02:50 pm

NTXSjunkie wrote:
A college scholarship is nice, but have you ever calculated how much soccer costs for just one year?

I am afraid if I ever did calculate this, I would cry.

Team fees: $3,000/year
Tournament: $500/tournament (food, hotel, entry fee)
Cleats: $100/pair
Gloves: $100+ (for GKs only)
You are forgetting about uniforms every 2 years.

With a basic team participating in 3 tournaments a year you're between $4,500-$5,000 a year for soccer. Now multiply that by 8 years (if they start playing first year of club) that's between $36,000-$40,000!High school costs money too. Just not as much. I would say that total costs, including travel, etc. is more in the $7,500 a year range.

Add in those teams that go to 5+ tournaments a year, or those players that play ODP as well... jeez.

You could save that $4,500-$5,000 a year for soccer and just pay for your child's school! What kind of education can you get for $10,000 a year?Or, they could get an academic scholarship, and now you've got a nice graduation present for them when they graduate college to help them get started in life! Facts are <1% of youth athletes get scholarships and play in college. And roughly 1% of those get to the pro's...
But for that 1%, it is a really good return on investment. There are few pro choices out there to earn a decent living, so there is no argument there.

by DrSoccer 30/09/13, 04:00 pm

hmmm... seems this question was being asked 15yrs ago as well. With the advent of academy soccer we are seeing more kids at a higher level. But we see a lot more average players and still very few exceptional soccer players. Wouldn't you think that if the system really worked we would see an abundance of top caliber players? After watching many pro/youth practices in Europe and S America, I can say that the things they think are important are very different from what we see the guys coaching here. Coaches there get paid to develop players to SELL so the focus is on developing the individual technique of the player, not a winning team at 8 (or 16)yrs old to keep the paycheck coming. Teaching shooting for example would consist of every 8yr old player learning to shoot with both feet, inside and outside of the foot, swerving the ball, volleying, 1 touch from either side, chipping the goalie, and bending the ball with both feet. Is this the type of shooting practices that your club coach runs? Probs not. Most ntx coaches consider lining up and dribbling to the goal as shooting practice- if they do it at all. So our players are missing a lot of technical ability. I think the use of the term skill is misused. It is technical development that is missing, not the ability to dribble 1v3. (skill?) Imagine trying to coach a youth pitcher to throw a curve ball by saying 'just throw it harder'. Or not working on it at all and then yelling at him for screwing up on game day. Everyone knows that it requires specific technique, its the same in soccer. But very few of our coaches have learned it, and most parents can't recognize it.

Since most of our coaches cut their teeth here in NTX and then in us colleges (at best) they continue the cycle of soccer abuse on our kids. Don't blame them, they can't help it-it's all they know. And more bad coaching is just more of something bad, it's not better. So more practice is not the answer, it's better coaching. Reinforcing bad technique or just ignoring technique just makes players worse. My hope is that your girls/sons will be exposed to exceptional training at some point and they can bring what they learned back to ntx for the next generation of soccer players.

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