LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion

LHGCL BOARD

This is gonna get good...

The original post was speaking of new 05 class and new 06 class. If I'm not mistaken, Previous 05 class will be considered 04 teams starting in August. So yes, new 05 teams will have new full qualification this summer. I have also heard that instead of new 06 teams having to play 18 more months of academy, that they will also be qualifying in a second new division this summer. I know new 05AP will be qualifying this summer, but the new decision made was to ALSO let the new 06AP qualify this summer. This would make 2 brand new AP divisions qualifying this summer. Can anyone verify that these decisions were made this week.

I guess I don't quite understand those that think the '05 should re-qualify this spring. As pointed out above, if you hold that rationale then you are saying that every age group in LHGCL should have to re-qualify. This doesn't just affect the '05 group, it affects all age groups up the line.

However, you are correct in saying that one group definitely gets the shaft and that is the Aug-Dec '05 kids that aren't on a select team currently. In reality there was really no way to accomplish all these changes without one group being left in the cold. I think you will see these kids join up with '05 teams that had numerous '04 kids on the team that move up.

The '05 group will not re-qualify. You can't take an entire season of results and throw them out the window. If they do that for the '05 group then they will have to do the same for every age group. Those teams that finish in the top 10 will receive byes to D1 next year and fill roster spots with the best remaining players born in '05.

Soccer_Cynic wrote:Does this mean a new '05 team can't be a D1 team until U14? Doesn't ECNL start U14?

bump

Ecnl starts at U13, juniors program.

A team that qualifies D3, in theory could make it to D1 by their U14 year.

Finish top 2 at U12, top 2 at u13, puts them in D1 at year 3.

yellowcard5 wrote:
You can't take an entire season of results and throw them out the window.

Isn't that what happens every year when a club is allowed to fill a bye with a team that didn't earn it?

So what happens to a team whose club does not have a U11 team currently playing LHGCL? So a current top 06 team with 05 born players can only qualify DIII?

So if Ric Flair, who is now Guest, is correct: then the 04 birth year kids playing in the 05 group would just shift up to play 04's. The 03's playing with 04's would just shift up to play 03's, so forth and so on. (so the smaller portion/ larger impact of the age group would be dispossessed)
The younger 05's would have to find an already qualified 05 team to play for, or put their own team together and challenge into Classic 3.
All the current team standings, future BYE's etc would remain how they are currently. Then the calendar year 06 group would be the only ones who are going through the qualification process this summer.

Is that summed up correctly? Ric/Guest?

Rogue wrote:So what happens to a team whose club does not have a U11 team currently playing LHGCL? So a current top 06 team with 05 born players can only qualify DIII?

That is how is has typically worked in the past. You have to challenge into D3.

Or, join a team that currently has a spot, if all goes as is being stated, then quite a few openings will be available soon.

tpitty wrote:So if Ric Flair, who is now Guest, is correct: then the 04 birth year kids playing in the 05 group would just shift up to play 04's. The 03's playing with 04's would just shift up to play 03's, so forth and so on. (so the smaller part/ larger impact of the age group would be dispossessed)
The younger 05's would have to find an already qualified 05 team to play for, or put their own team together and challenge into Classic 3.
All the current team standings, future BYE's etc would remain how they are currently. They the calendar year 06 group would be the only ones who are going through the qualification process this summer.

Is that summed up correctly? Ric/Guest?

That is it. Well put tpitty.
My reliable sources tell me that, as of this moment,
your above synopsis is absolutely correct.

Now, having said that, until all discussions have ceased and an official announcement has been made, there's still a possibility of a 'change in course.'

Rogue wrote:So what happens to a team whose club does not have a U11 team currently playing LHGCL? So a current top 06 team with 05 born players can only qualify DIII?

That appears to be the situation. It seems like a long journey to a not so great destination, assuming D1 will be diluted when ECNL starts.

"I started out mopping the floor just like you guys. But now... now I'm washing lettuce. Soon I'll be on fries; then the grill. And pretty soon, I'll make assistant manager, and that's when the big bucks start rolling in."

SolarPower00 wrote:

tpitty wrote:So if Ric Flair, who is now Guest, is correct: then the 04 birth year kids playing in the 05 group would just shift up to play 04's. The 03's playing with 04's would just shift up to play 03's, so forth and so on. (so the smaller part/ larger impact of the age group would be dispossessed)
The younger 05's would have to find an already qualified 05 team to play for, or put their own team together and challenge into Classic 3.
All the current team standings, future BYE's etc would remain how they are currently. They the calendar year 06 group would be the only ones who are going through the qualification process this summer.

Is that summed up correctly? Ric/Guest?

That is it. Well put tpitty.
My reliable sources tell me that, as of this moment,
your above synopsis is absolutely correct.

Now, having said that, until all discussions have ceased and an official announcement has been made, there's still a possibility of a 'change in course.'

That is looking like what is happening. If you look at LH you will see what clubs are in good shape and what clubs are in trouble. I feel for the small clubs and coaches. Its a pretty raw deal for them for sure!

For those that do not know where to find LH Standings. Here you go!

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=46601&Gender=Girls&Age=11

Soccer_Cynic wrote:"I started out mopping the floor just like you guys. But now... now I'm washing lettuce. Soon I'll be on fries; then the grill. And pretty soon, I'll make assistant manager, and that's when the big bucks start rolling in."

Tell me about it... [flip] [flip] (sizzle) (sizzle)

TatonkaBurger wrote:

Soccer_Cynic wrote:"I started out mopping the floor just like you guys. But now... now I'm washing lettuce. Soon I'll be on fries; then the grill. And pretty soon, I'll make assistant manager, and that's when the big bucks start rolling in."

Tell me about it... [flip] [flip] (sizzle) (sizzle)

Classic!!

The current aug-dec 05 do not have to find a team to play with, they are the new 05 group that will be for sure qualifying this summer. The Jan-July 05 that are currently playing select will either continue to play up on their current team ( which as of August will be considered an 04 team) or go back down and play with the new 05 AP group. 05 AP are who will be qualifying this summer. Every current select team will keep their bye and move to the next age together. The difference will be that every single team will be classified a year older than they were before.
Current Classification. August Classification
05. 04
04. 03
03. 02
02. 01
Etc. these are all the exact same current teams, they are just having their age group changed. The aug - dec player can continue with the team and play up into the new age of the team, or drop down and play with their AP age group. With these changes it make the current 06 players that are actually 05 August-December the new 05 AP age group. That AP 05 group is who is qualifying for select this summer

To be clear...

There was a meeting

They are heading in the opposite direction you are stating above.

There was an email sent out this morning by LHGCL that they are listening to the concerns being sent their way.

Be prepared for the worse and hope for the best.

Thank you. That's what I'm asking about. What are we hearing is the opposite direction. Main points.

Soccerzrus wrote:Thank you. That's what I'm asking about. What are we hearing is the opposite direction. Main points.

1st you have to start with the understanding that US Soccer Federation announced a few weeks ago a corrected age chart.

And based on that age chart you use the age of the oldest player at the end of the season (contract). So for Lake Highlands and North Texas 2006s would be U11 as of January 2017 so you have to call 2006 age pure teams U11 to span the length of fall 2016 and spring 2017

With that knowledge here is what LH is planning:

2006s will be going thru QT this summer as U11
Current (2015-2016 season) 05 teams will be given a 2005 AP bye for 2016-2017
04s will be given a 2004 AP bye
03s will be given a 2003 AP bye
Etc...

What that does is any Aug 2005 thru Dec. 2005 players now have to start looking for a D1 or D3 LH or Plano etc Current 05 team to start practicing with in hopes of making that team come July 1.

And the 2004s on the 05 teams will move up within the club byes if they are available etc...

So the 05 teams now will have to purge the current 04 to keep their bye and those 05 teams that purged the 04 will become the 05 AP group? Will the teams that are 05/06 now be allowed to qualify in the 05 AP bracket?

Soccerzrus wrote:The current aug-dec 05 do not have to find a team to play with, they are the new 05 group that will be for sure qualifying this summer. The Jan-July 05 that are currently playing select will either continue to play up on their current team ( which as of August will be considered an 04 team) or go back down and play with the new 05 AP group. 05 AP are who will be qualifying this summer. Every current select team will keep their bye and move to the next age together. The difference will be that every single team will be classified a year older than they were before.
Current Classification.               August Classification
05.                                             04
04.                                             03
03.                                             02
02.                                             01
Etc. these are all the exact same current teams, they are just having their age group changed. The aug - dec player can continue with the team and play up into the new age of the team, or drop down and play with their AP age group. With these changes it make the current 06 players that are actually 05 August-December the new 05 AP age group. That AP 05 group is who is qualifying for select this summer

Unfortunately, your information is outdated. It's just that the "new" information has not been published yet.

What was published a couple of weeks back, is that USSF screwed up their original definition of the age matrix ('06's would be U10 in 2016, 05's would be U11, and so on... - that was WRONG). Now it has been corrected and '06's will be U11's in 2016, '05's U12, etc...

LH made their original decision on how they would handle byes and the switch to AP next summer, based on what USSF/NTX originally published (an is now outdated). Under that scenario, '06's would not have gone select this summer. '05's would be holding a full QT for LH U11, and U12 and above would work according to the standard promotion system. Byes earned from this years U11 play would apply to U12 next year, U12 byes earned from this year would apply to U13, etc... The byes would essentially move with the OLDEST players from the team's, and it would be up to the individual teams/clubs to decide if they wanted their younger players to continue to "play up" or if they wanted to transition their teams to calendar year rosters.

However, word on the street (and I have been getting a consistent message from the people I have been talking to, and have been reliable sources in the past), is that even with the recent change in the Age Matrix, LH is NOT going to modify their process.

That means that byes earned in U11 play this year, will still apply to U12 next year. HOWEVER, with the recent "correction" to the age matrix, that means that LH's decision to not do anything differently, actually represents a HUGE change. U12 will now be '05 AP next year, which means that any Aug-Dec '04's that are currently on U11 in LH, will have to play in U13 next year. HOWEVER, since the bye their team earns in U11 this year, will be for U12 next year, that means that ALL of those Aug-Dec '04's will be FORCED to find a new team to play on next year, UNLESS the coach wants to forfeit their U12 bye and keep the team together and take their shot at qualifying for U13 D3 via the QT this summer.

This same process follows for all age groups from U12->U16. Basically, LH is now essentially "forcing" roughly 40% of their players (all of the Aug-Dec birthdates in each age group) to find new teams next year, as they will not be able to play with the current team they are playing on, unless the team decides to forfeit their current bye in order to try and qualify for D3 in the older age group.

The net is, if any of the Aug-Dec '05's currently playing U10 academy, want to play in LH U12 D1 or D2 next year, they will likely have to go find an existing team that has a bye earned from this year's U11 league play, or be given an existing bye in U12 that their club owns, but has been abandoned by the team that earned it. Otherwise, any "new" AP '05 teams will likely be competing for a few open spots in U12 D3 for next fall.

The '06's will be the only age group holding a "full blown" QT that will populate D1-D3.

Now, NONE OF THIS HAS BE WRITTEN DOWN AND PUBLISHED YET. However, depending on who I speak with, this decision is somewhere between 75% certain and 100% DONE DEAL.

The net, is that if this decision is the way it flushes out, expect to see a lot of chaos this spring/summer. Clubs shuffling rosters, clubs playing "musical byes", small clubs/indy teams making deals with each other and/or joining bigger clubs in order to keep rosters together, and unfortunately, a fair number of teams will just end up imploding because the roster change and uncertainty will just be too much.

All so that we can better serve the fraction of 1% of players that are good enough for WNT consideration...

bwgophers wrote:

Soccerzrus wrote:The current aug-dec 05 do not have to find a team to play with, they are the new 05 group that will be for sure qualifying this summer. The Jan-July 05 that are currently playing select will either continue to play up on their current team ( which as of August will be considered an 04 team) or go back down and play with the new 05 AP group. 05 AP are who will be qualifying this summer. Every current select team will keep their bye and move to the next age together. The difference will be that every single team will be classified a year older than they were before.
Current Classification.               August Classification
05.                                             04
04.                                             03
03.                                             02
02.                                             01
Etc. these are all the exact same current teams, they are just having their age group changed. The aug - dec player can continue with the team and play up into the new age of the team, or drop down and play with their AP age group. With these changes it make the current 06 players that are actually 05 August-December the new 05 AP age group. That AP 05 group is who is qualifying for select this summer

Unfortunately, your information is outdated.  It's just that the "new" information has not been published yet.

What was published a couple of weeks back, is that USSF screwed up their original definition of the age matrix ('06's would be U10 in 2016, 05's would be U11, and so on... - that was WRONG).  Now it has been corrected and '06's will be U11's in 2016, '05's U12, etc...

LH made their original decision on how they would handle byes and the switch to AP next summer, based on what USSF/NTX originally published (an is now outdated).  Under that scenario, '06's would not have gone select this summer.  '05's would be holding a full QT for LH U11, and U12 and above would work according to the standard promotion system.  Byes earned from this years U11 play would apply to U12 next year, U12 byes earned from this year would apply to U13, etc...  The byes would essentially move with the OLDEST players from the team's, and it would be up to the individual teams/clubs to decide if they wanted their younger players to continue to "play up" or if they wanted to transition their teams to calendar year rosters.

However, word on the street (and I have been getting a consistent message from the people I have been talking to, and have been reliable sources in the past), is that even with the recent change in the Age Matrix, LH is NOT going to modify their process.

That means that byes earned in U11 play this year, will still apply to U12 next year.  HOWEVER, with the recent "correction" to the age matrix, that means that LH's decision to not do anything differently, actually represents a HUGE change.  U12 will now be '05 AP next year, which means that any Aug-Dec '04's that are currently on U11 in LH, will have to play in U13 next year.  HOWEVER, since the bye their team earns in U11 this year, will be for U12 next year, that means that ALL of those Aug-Dec '04's will be FORCED to find a new team to play on next year, UNLESS the coach wants to forfeit their U12 bye and keep the team together and take their shot at qualifying for U13 D3 via the QT this summer.  

This same process follows for all age groups from U12->U16.  Basically, LH is now essentially "forcing" roughly 40% of their players (all of the Aug-Dec birthdates in each age group) to find new teams next year, as they will not be able to play with the current team they are playing on, unless the team decides to forfeit their current bye in order to try and qualify for D3 in the older age group.

The net is, if any of the Aug-Dec '05's currently playing U10 academy, want to play in LH U12 D1 or D2 next year, they will likely have to go find an existing team that has a bye earned from this year's U11 league play, or be given an existing bye in U12 that their club owns, but has been abandoned by the team that earned it.  Otherwise, any "new" AP '05 teams will likely be competing for a few open spots in U12 D3 for next fall.

The '06's will be the only age group holding a "full blown" QT that will populate D1-D3.

Now, NONE OF THIS HAS BE WRITTEN DOWN AND PUBLISHED YET.  However, depending on who I speak with, this decision is somewhere between 75% certain and 100% DONE DEAL.

The net, is that if this decision is the way it flushes out, expect to see a lot of chaos this spring/summer.  Clubs shuffling rosters, clubs playing "musical byes", small clubs/indy teams making deals with each other and/or joining bigger clubs in order to keep rosters together, and unfortunately, a fair number of teams will just end up imploding because the roster change and uncertainty will just be too much.

All so that we can better serve the fraction of 1% of players that are good enough for WNT consideration...

With this kind of disruption it creates an opportunity. I would not be surprised to see a JR ECNL league popping up similiar to what SoCal has done.

So with this understanding, will a current August-dec 05/Jan-july06 team still be able to compete together next year as an incoming u12 team?

Ah, yet another big money grab for the big club.

Big disruption...

Let's start a JR ECNL league, top players will flock there so we can get them there...

Also frees up more spots on our byes in LHGCL so we can backfill even more...

Will this ever end... SMH

Soccerzrus wrote:So with this understanding, will a current August-dec 05/Jan-july06 team still be able to compete together next year as an incoming u12 team?

They would only be competing for a spot into Division 3 unless handed a bye by a sister team.

FriscoSoccer05 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

Soccerzrus wrote:The current aug-dec 05 do not have to find a team to play with, they are the new 05 group that will be for sure qualifying this summer. The Jan-July 05 that are currently playing select will either continue to play up on their current team ( which as of August will be considered an 04 team) or go back down and play with the new 05 AP group. 05 AP are who will be qualifying this summer. Every current select team will keep their bye and move to the next age together. The difference will be that every single team will be classified a year older than they were before.
Current Classification.               August Classification
05.                                             04
04.                                             03
03.                                             02
02.                                             01
Etc. these are all the exact same current teams, they are just having their age group changed. The aug - dec player can continue with the team and play up into the new age of the team, or drop down and play with their AP age group. With these changes it make the current 06 players that are actually 05 August-December the new 05 AP age group. That AP 05 group is who is qualifying for select this summer

Unfortunately, your information is outdated.  It's just that the "new" information has not been published yet.

What was published a couple of weeks back, is that USSF screwed up their original definition of the age matrix ('06's would be U10 in 2016, 05's would be U11, and so on... - that was WRONG).  Now it has been corrected and '06's will be U11's in 2016, '05's U12, etc...

LH made their original decision on how they would handle byes and the switch to AP next summer, based on what USSF/NTX originally published (an is now outdated).  Under that scenario, '06's would not have gone select this summer.  '05's would be holding a full QT for LH U11, and U12 and above would work according to the standard promotion system.  Byes earned from this years U11 play would apply to U12 next year, U12 byes earned from this year would apply to U13, etc...  The byes would essentially move with the OLDEST players from the team's, and it would be up to the individual teams/clubs to decide if they wanted their younger players to continue to "play up" or if they wanted to transition their teams to calendar year rosters.

However, word on the street (and I have been getting a consistent message from the people I have been talking to, and have been reliable sources in the past), is that even with the recent change in the Age Matrix, LH is NOT going to modify their process.

That means that byes earned in U11 play this year, will still apply to U12 next year.  HOWEVER, with the recent "correction" to the age matrix, that means that LH's decision to not do anything differently, actually represents a HUGE change.  U12 will now be '05 AP next year, which means that any Aug-Dec '04's that are currently on U11 in LH, will have to play in U13 next year.  HOWEVER, since the bye their team earns in U11 this year, will be for U12 next year, that means that ALL of those Aug-Dec '04's will be FORCED to find a new team to play on next year, UNLESS the coach wants to forfeit their U12 bye and keep the team together and take their shot at qualifying for U13 D3 via the QT this summer.  

This same process follows for all age groups from U12->U16.  Basically, LH is now essentially "forcing" roughly 40% of their players (all of the Aug-Dec birthdates in each age group) to find new teams next year, as they will not be able to play with the current team they are playing on, unless the team decides to forfeit their current bye in order to try and qualify for D3 in the older age group.

The net is, if any of the Aug-Dec '05's currently playing U10 academy, want to play in LH U12 D1 or D2 next year, they will likely have to go find an existing team that has a bye earned from this year's U11 league play, or be given an existing bye in U12 that their club owns, but has been abandoned by the team that earned it.  Otherwise, any "new" AP '05 teams will likely be competing for a few open spots in U12 D3 for next fall.

The '06's will be the only age group holding a "full blown" QT that will populate D1-D3.

Now, NONE OF THIS HAS BE WRITTEN DOWN AND PUBLISHED YET.  However, depending on who I speak with, this decision is somewhere between 75% certain and 100% DONE DEAL.

The net, is that if this decision is the way it flushes out, expect to see a lot of chaos this spring/summer.  Clubs shuffling rosters, clubs playing "musical byes", small clubs/indy teams making deals with each other and/or joining bigger clubs in order to keep rosters together, and unfortunately, a fair number of teams will just end up imploding because the roster change and uncertainty will just be too much.

All so that we can better serve the fraction of 1% of players that are good enough for WNT consideration...

With this kind of disruption it creates an opportunity.  I would not be surprised to see a JR ECNL league popping up similiar to what SoCal has done.

You are spot on.  FC Dallas and D'Feeters have already posted open tryouts for a 'Pre-ECNL' team on the forum.  I would bet the others aren't far behind.