LHGCL - 2016-2017 Age Divisions, QT and Bye Discussion

Switchfoot wrote:If I was the director of PPL and if LHGCL does in fact leave the clubs bye with the age group and make the teams blow up or qualify D3 then I would implement a complete overhaul and requlify all age groups in PPL. This would allow the already strong teams (LHGCL D1's) teams to stay together with the younger players playing up and give PPL the chance to steal away the market share LHGCL currently has.

Sounds great. Since all of the big clubs are "in" on this decision, none of them will go, you can turn PPL into the indy league. That should last a season.

The decision to give the bye to the lower age-group will effectively eliminate a large number of independent and small clubs from LH - while increasing the large clubs' representation and power.

Most LH teams are top-heavy (age wise), not bottom heavy.  As a result, most teams would have to refresh more than 1/2 of their players - easy to do for large clubs who can shuffle players around.  Not as easy for small clubs who will have to recruit the majority of a team (and then see the possibility that they are dropped divisions).

In addition, many of the older girls on independent / small clubs may not find a LH team within their club when they move up.

This decision would be a serious disservice to small / independent clubs - but maybe that is part of the plan.  

If the majority (and sometimes the vast majority) of girls that make up a team are older, why shouldn't they be the ones to take the bye (that they have earned) with them?

Take a team like FWFC U13 - #3 in D1.  Where will the girls come from when the majority of the older girls are kicked off the team?  They don't have a U12 team to fill the ranks.  And the older girls best option within the club is the U14 team #9 in D2.

How about Fever U14 - #1 in D1.  Where will the girls come from when the majority of the older girls are kicked off the team?  They also don't have a U13 team to fill the ranks.  And where will the older girls go?  There is no LH U15 team to move to.  These girls have earned their number one slot - likely mostly older girls - who will be forced to change clubs to stay in LH.

Hey Liverpool - where are your U12 older girls going? If not ECNL, their best club option is the #13 U13 D2 team that may not even qualify!

It would be SHAMEFUL for LH to take this approach.

Yep.

How about Kicks U-15? Played for the national championship in July......but it'll be good for everybody if we bust that team up.

This is such as despicable situation. Adults doing this to kids so that their associates can make more money. Truly despicable.

tpitty wrote:

soccer5555 wrote:As others have stated, teams could stay together if LHGCL keeps the byes with the OLDER players from the team.  Does anyone know why LHGCL has decided NOT to do this?  Do they not have a choice for some reason?  

Why leave the byes with the younger players from the team and thereby essentially f orce every team at every age group to have to rebuild?  Most girls want to stay with their current team/coach.  Shouldn't the LHGCL board be representing what the thousands of girls that play for them want?

Not that I agree or disagree, It will be what ever it will be. However, here might be a reason for you.
The MAJORITY of the kids in an age group are that age. So in the 03 age group, 60% of those girls are calendar year 03. The smaller percentage is older. Move the older/smaller percentage to the age group that they are the majority in. Move them up.  Either way it is sliced, some age group of kids/parents will be looking for new teams.

This is just not true in LH.  Every LH roster I have seen has been made up of MORE older girls and fewer younger girls.

Do you even math?

Aug-Dec (5 months), Jan-July(7 months). There probably is more older girls in D1, but overall there has to be more younger girls. Unless, the relative age effect is so strong that the younger players drop out of soccer completely.

Across ALL soccer players?  Sure - pure math likely dictates it.

My comment pertains to LH rosters only - almost every roster I have seen - DI, DII and DIII teams - is made up of older players.  I could only identify 3 rosters in the past 1 1/2 years that did NOT have a majority older players.

Both of my daughter's teams are primarily younger girls. Of 16 02 girls, 12 were born in 02. Of 21 00 girls, 17 were born in 00.

Lack of transparency is a HUGE part of the problem. Who's on the board? Don't know. Where did they come from? Don't know.  Who do they represent? Don't know. Who recommended them? Don't know. What goes on in the meetings? Don't know?  Was everybody there? Don't know. Who do they listen to? Don't know. Reminds me of the way the Pope gets elected.

All you can ascertain is that every time a new rule comes down the pike it works in favor of the the big clubs or it has loopholes in it that are big enough to drive an aircraft carrier through. People that have things to hide, hide it. What's the big secret?  It's kids sports. Why can't it all be handled out in the open?

OLJW wrote:Yep.

How about Kicks U-15?  Played for the national championship in July......but it'll be good for everybody if we bust that team up.

This is such as despicable situation. Adults doing this to kids so that their associates can make more money. Truly despicable.

Code:

I am missing the money part. How are the adults making more money off the calendar year change?

jibjab2 wrote:Across ALL soccer players?  Sure - pure math likely dictates it.

My comment pertains to LH rosters only - almost every roster I have seen - DI, DII and DIII teams - is made up of older players.  I could only identify 3 rosters in the past 1 1/2 years that did NOT have a majority older players.

That's a strong argument for relative age effect! USSF should consider aligning our relative age effect with the rest of the World.

OLJW wrote:Yep.

How about Kicks U-15?  Played for the national championship in July......but it'll be good for everybody if we bust that team up.

This is such as despicable situation. Adults doing this to kids so that their associates can make more money. Truly despicable.

Nothing is official yet so I hope someone comes to their senses.  I personally don't see the logic behind ripping every team apart.  In the end I try not to worry about things I can't control.

As for our U15 team I have confirmed the bye to Premier and National League will go with our oldest age group, so our younger age group can play up.   My focus is on showcase events and getting college exposure for my players. In the end, I think that is a big reason why our girls play select. Our players have done well with college exposure for being in the 9th grade.  The problem won't be if they will get exposure it will be deciding which college best fits their needs.  Next year I will have a 00 and 01 showcase travel team. While Kicks SC 01 will play as a team in LHGCL, PREMIER or NATIONAL LEAGUE we will put together age pure showcase teams to give more players an opportunity to get exposure.  

Who knows what other changes are coming our way.  In the end the more OPTIONS teams/coaches/players/parents have the better for them.  Get ready for more twists and turns in this roller coaster ride.

I don't know the age of the back end of your roster, but if your younger girls are playing against kids a calendar year older than them at the highest level, how do you expect them to look good while getting college exposure? Wouldn't it make more sense to play on a more level playing field? Even the older girls will be up to 7 months younger already, assuming your competition is Jan based bdays.

I am all for the Kicks, and love reppn any team from NTX.

However, failure to adjust to the change may make everything more difficult for those trying to keep it that way it "should be."

Teams from small clubs fold...and their players go to big clubs.  

Chances of the strong players that play for strong independent teams deciding to go play for another independent team are pretty low. Chances that they're gonna elect to requalify at the next older age group after being at the top of D1 are zero.

Chances that they get sick and tired of fighting against a stacked deck and just go to a big club are pretty high in my opinion.

Small clubs lose players, big clubs gain players = more money for big clubs and less competition for big clubs.

Ok, so the argument is the big clubs making more money. Gotcha.

There will always be indy's. Always be a cheaper route to go play. This will not be end of all indy clubs or teams. Just a change up this year.

I can relate to that thought process though.

tpitty wrote:I don't know that age of the back end of your roster, but if your younger girls are playing kid a calendar year older than them at the highest level, how do you expect them to look good while getting college exposure. Wouldn't it make more since to play on a more level playing field? Even the older girls will be up to 7 months younger already, assuming your competition is Jan based bdays.

My roster is split 50/50 between 00's and 01's.  The bye for Premier and National League will go with 00s.  We have very talented 01's that will have no problem playing up with 00s.  Two of them are going to FL with USYNT camp next week.  You have to remember that most of the 00's are made up of 99s/00s so those teams will play as a 99 team.  At the older age groups a year is not that big of difference as it is in the younger age group.  

Most of the college coaches I have spoken to say they are scouting players not teams.  They are not recruiting a team. They look at players to see if they know how to play.  Do they have the skills set to play for their programs, such as 1st touch, speed of play, soccer IQ etc.....

I saw that news on the USYNT players, congrats!! That is a wonderful honor for them and for you.

Hopefully most of these others teams that want their younger kids to play up have players of like caliber so they can make up the difference in size and ability.

peace11 wrote:My roster is split 50/50 between 00's and 01's.  The bye for Premier and National League will go with 00s.

So, Premier and National League is giving the bye to '00s (older group of girls) and the '01s play up?  This is inconsistent with what LH appears to be doing.  The LH decision makes even less sense now.  I thought LH might have been trying to align with Premier League.

soccer5555 wrote:

peace11 wrote:My roster is split 50/50 between 00's and 01's.  The bye for Premier and National League will go with 00s.

So, Premier and National League is giving the bye to '00s (older group of girls) and the '01s play up?  This is inconsistent with what LH appears to be doing.  The LH decision makes even less sense now.  I thought LH might have been trying to align with Premier League.

I don't think LH has made anything official yet. I believe they discussed how they will implement the changes but they haven't made anything official.  Hopefully, they align with Premier and National league. I'm planning for the worst and hoping for the best.

tpitty wrote:I saw that news on the USYNT players, congrats!! That is a wonderful honor for them and for you.

Hopefully most of these others teams that want their younger kids to play up have players of like caliber so they can make up the difference in size and ability.

Thank you. It is a great honor to coach these type of players. Great kids with lots of passion for the game.

peace11 wrote:

soccer5555 wrote:

peace11 wrote:My roster is split 50/50 between 00's and 01's.  The bye for Premier and National League will go with 00s.

So, Premier and National League is giving the bye to '00s (older group of girls) and the '01s play up?  This is inconsistent with what LH appears to be doing.  The LH decision makes even less sense now.  I thought LH might have been trying to align with Premier League.

I don't think LH has made anything official yet. I believe they discussed how they will implement the changes but they haven't made anything official.  Hopefully, they align with Premier and National league. I'm planning for the worst and hoping for the best.

That is correct.  LH has not made a decision yet but it would be nice if they did it soon.  Since the other leagues have shown what they are doing with the byes, I cannot imagine LH would make the decision of giving them to the younger players.  I understand that it won't be fun for the AP05s to have to qualify again (probably only about 60% of them actually) but the alternative seems so much more disruptive.

I pulled all our teams game rosters for this season alone (6 games scheduled) and of the 7 teams (including us) all teams have a minimum of 7 girls with bday between Aug-Dec. That team only has 15 rostered players and 1 of those is an '03 (playing up). Most had 8 players with an '01 bday and a couple with 10 players effected.

We are U14 D2 teams. I can't imagine what the D1 teams look like. I am sure they are more heavy on the '01 players then D2.