Why is there No protection given to Keepers anymore

scrappy wrote:

SocDad wrote:WOW....this is awesome.  

6 pages of GoalKeeper banter!!!!!!  I love it!

when our goalie saves I cheer, when she collides I gasp, when she's back up on her 2 feet I praise the lord.

And my DD is not a goalie  

Love that!

ONLYASOCCERDAD wrote:

00GKdad wrote:

futbollove wrote:Nor do they need to be protected anymore than the other players on the field. I've seen just as many field players taken out by keepers, with no call, but no one started a 6 page thread about it.

This is where people with significant keeper experience and those with little keeper experience will always fundamentally disagree.  No other position in soccer regularly requires the player to have their head near a head-shaped object that another soccer player wants to swing their feet at (see: a "grass-cutter" save, or a smother save).   No other position on the pitch requires the player to regularly be at full horizontal stretch while one or more players may be running at their midsection.  That high cross that the keeper in a crowd has to jump to catch or punch exposes them to having their legs taken out from underneath them - a nasty tackle in the NFL and a bad foul in the NBA.

I'm not saying that field players don't get hurt; quite the contrary.  I'm just saying that the techniques and body shapes modern goalkeeping requires of a GK potentially exposes them to serious injury more than any other position on the pitch.  When you take away their ability to protect themselves (as the original poster was complaining about)  and the referees (no offense to the ones here; I know its a very difficult call sometimes), don't at least discourage players from charging or taking full swings at a GK whose body is not braced at all for the impact, the GK position becomes a suicidal position that no one in their right mind would let their DD play without American football pads and a helmet.

I understand that parents get upset when their DD gets "taken out," but at worst, they're getting tripped and taking a tumble, not getting kicked in the ribs or head.

you could have stopped with your first sentence and been 100% correct. you could have pointed to the inherent danger of of the gk position BUT YOU CAN'T MORPH THAT INTO BEING A SUICIDAL POSITION LMAO. SO I GUESS YOU ARE ONE OF THE ONES not "in their right mind would let their DD play without American football pads and a helmet."?

Thats what Im saying and how the game has changed when you take away the keepers ability to protect them self by calling more pks it becomes more dangerous. I think he is trying to make a point about sucidal and didnt mean it literal. The fact the the Pk changes the outcome of the game vs a call against a forward just changes possession so why not run into the keeper you may win the game by doing it

Ps after this weekend and we should hit 15 pages whats the record on here

Just for you Goat!

Check out that keeper form!   

GGoat wrote:.. I know they have not been protecting the keepers as much anymore but to penalize them for protecting themselves  is crazy. What are the rules on this and has anyone else heard of this.

GGoat - Coz they already have padded gloves, elbow pads, butt pads and optional knee pads and possibly a protective head cap. What other additional protection aids do they require? Field players don't have that sorta luxury hence get the benefit of the NO-doubt from the NTX refs .

Just for you GGoat!
Check out that keeper form!   

Ok, Maybe I'm not gone.      Excellent video.
GGoat, the keeper had excellent technique on that 1v1 challenge, would you have called a PK on that?   I would love to hear your opinion on this call. Although, it may look simple to most there are about 10 things that you have to consider in the decision.

PK or No PK?

GGoat - Talk to your daughters GK trainer about the call.  I think you will find they will agree with it.  The referee may have given a bad explanation but it sounds like the right call or it could have been worse with a red.  If they feel they are in danger of being run over by all means protect themselves and live with the results.  I do not think the game has changed all that much just you are experiencing the changes that occur as they grow up.  What is important and is ignored by many jokesters on here making light of the risk keepers take every time they take the field is the referees should enforce the rules in place and that will help protect the goalies from gratuitous cheap shots.  One of the best keepers ever for Celtic had his life ended early by on onrushing forward.  A search on Google sadly reveals many life threatening and career ending collisions taken by keepers.  Petr Cech has a plate in his head from a collision.  Read this about his collision and Tottenham keeper Lloris and continue to make light of it all the protection the goalies wear.   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2487971/Jose-Mourinho-Petr-Cech-dying-head-injury-Chelsea.html

For the parents of the true athletes on the field hopefully it will not take an intentional elbow thrown to your child's head with no call for you to see the point being made.  I guess you would not be sitting quietly on the sideline about rule enforcement in that case.  GGoat needs a better understanding of the rules but all the ridicule is really uncalled for.  And Goalies don't run as much in a game would you want them wondering all over their field? There are also most likely not as fast as the others on the field but good ones are athletic and skilled in their own way.

As for your latest video and remark about keeper form. The defender made a incredibly horrible play practically gift wrapping a goal for the other team. The GK was hung out to dry gambled and overcommitted but what everyone remembers is the fastest red card ever was on the GK. It is obviously a PK just a matter of which card is pulled. Although I don't see why the yellow and PK are not enough 10 seconds in. No other field player except the last defender in a breakaway would get such harsh treatment for a simple trip and yes I know that show it is so deal with it. It is a good observation GGoat made. Forwards have little to lose by attacking and or diving.

Refs always have descretion.....but they have to live with thier decision (unless you live in Detroit).

Personally...I think it should have just been a Yellow and PK.
Did the keeper intentionally trip the forward?
Was the keeper going after the ball or the player?
Did the keeper touch the ball?
If the GK did not touch the ball, then how far away was the ball?
Most of those are descretionary.

When a forward gets the foul......the GK gets to distribute the ball (No immediate scoring opportunity)
When the GK'er gets the foul......a striker gets a PK (Immediate scoring opportunity)

For right or wrong.......who has more to gain?  But this is the rules....so we live by them.

PS....were up to 7 pages now!  

Hard Practice wrote:As for your latest video and remark about keeper form.  The defender made a incredibly horrible play practically gift wrapping a goal for the other team.  The GK was hung out to dry gambled and overcommitted but what everyone remembers is the fastest red card ever was on the GK.  It is obviously a PK just a matter of which card is pulled.  Although I don't see why the yellow and PK are not enough 10 seconds in.  No other field player except the last defender in a breakaway would get such harsh treatment for a simple trip and yes I know that show it is so deal with it.  It is a good observation GGoat made.  Forwards have little to lose by attacking and or diving.

If you're being assessed on a game like this or on television you have no choice but to give a RED.  The assessor would fail you immediately and walk off the field.

Here are the four "major" elements.  You can't walk over to the attacking coach and say, "Coach, I know you need to win and get the 3 points but it's early in the game and I don't feel like they deserve to play down."

Law12.37 (b) Judging an obvious goal scoring opportunity

Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity by an offense punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick In order for a player or substitute to be sent off for denying an "obvious goalscoring opportunity by an offense punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick" (number 5 under the seven send-off offenses), four elements must be present:

• Number of Defenders—not more than one defender between the foul and the goal, not counting the defender who committed the foul
• Distance to goal—the closer the foul is to the goal, the more likely it is an obvious goal scoring opportunity
• Distance to ball—the attacker must have been close enough to the ball at the time of the foul to continue playing the ball
• Direction of play—the attacker must have been moving toward the goal at the time the foul was committed

If any element is missing, there can be no send off for denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity. Further, the presence of each of these elements must be "obvious" in order for the send-off to be appropriate under this provision of Law 12

All we keep hearing about is how GK's need protecting from the forwards. ALL players need protection on the field.
https://youtu.be/tGq7VcaHoqo

this answer is for Its me post.This video is at professional level and I have to assume some things. I have to assume he was called for tripping and not reasoning his leg too high when the striker ran over him which is what I have been saying. The striker actually tried to avoid the keeper which doesnt happen as much in girls soccer. The question I have if the keeper had gotten to the ball first and the striker hit the keeper would there have been a red card given probable not

Triumph FC wrote:All we keep hearing about is how GK's need protecting from the forwards. ALL players need protection on the field.
https://youtu.be/tGq7VcaHoqo

No intent to go after the ball on that one!  GK'er should have gotten a red card and suspension...for a deliberate targeting of opponet.

GGoat wrote:this answer is for Its me post.This video is at professional level and I have to assume some things. I have to assume he was called for tripping and not reasoning his leg too high when the striker ran over him which is what I have been saying. The striker actually tried to avoid the keeper which doesnt happen as much in girls soccer. The question I have if the keeper had gotten to the ball first and the striker hit the keeper would there have been a red card given probable not

No because it's dealt with like 2 players going for a 50/50 ball unless of course it was so late and malicious intent was there. Posters keep telling you the answer and either you choose not to believe them or just want to keep stirring the pot. You don't think it's fair that a GK can be sent off for bringing down the opposition player but the forward stays on for clattering the GK ( not in my video posted earlier) but the law states that if you deny a obvious goal scoring opportunity you have to walk (this will happen to the last defender as well) Those are the laws.
The best advice I can offer you is go get your daughter some top notch GK training to improve her technique and stop all this "GK needs to protect themselves" nonsense. You keep adding that is what she has been taught at ODP, that is not a good re commendation
Lastly can you send me your address so I can send you a nice lump of cheese to go with your whine!

GGoat wrote:this answer is for Its me post.This video is at professional level and I have to assume some things. I have to assume he was called for tripping and not reasoning his leg too high when the striker ran over him which is what I have been saying. The striker actually tried to avoid the keeper which doesnt happen as much in girls soccer. The question I have if the keeper had gotten to the ball first and the striker hit the keeper would there have been a red card given probable not

Because we're unable to see the described "raising of the leg" we can not make a definite answer to your question.  

To answer your second question if there was no malicious or reckless intent then there would not be a red card to the striker.  In soccer I can't tell the strikers to give keeper first option to get the ball. As a keeper you are going to have to commit to take the hard hits at times. And yes, there are going to be times you're going to have contact. If you can't handle the level of play then either put her in the field or quit soccer.  Those are two simple options since you want to write your own soccer laws.

Triumph FC wrote:

GGoat wrote:this answer is for Its me post.This video is at professional level and I have to assume some things. I have to assume he was called for tripping and not reasoning his leg too high when the striker ran over him which is what I have been saying. The striker actually tried to avoid the keeper which doesnt happen as much in girls soccer. The question I have if the keeper had gotten to the ball first and the striker hit the keeper would there have been a red card given probable not

No because it's dealt with like 2 players going for a 50/50 ball unless of course it was so late and malicious intent was there. Posters keep telling you the answer and either you choose not to believe them or just want to keep stirring the pot. You don't think it's fair that a GK can be sent off for bringing down the opposition player but the forward stays on for clattering the GK ( not in my video posted earlier) but the law states that if you deny a obvious goal scoring opportunity you have to walk (this will happen to the last defender as well) Those are the laws.
The best advice I can offer you is go get your daughter some top notch GK training to improve her technique and stop all this "GK needs to protect themselves" nonsense. You keep adding that is what she has been taught at ODP, that is not a good re commendation
Lastly can you send me your address so I can send you a nice lump of cheese to go with your whine!

Triumph FC...You are pretty much spot on

My DD does train with probably the best GK around this area.....and he does mention "Protect Yourself" (not often)...but he does mention it when he teaches certain drills. (note....I did not say ALL drills)

But, I do think his interpretation has a DIFFERENT meaning than what is being expressed here in this thread.

"Protecting one's self" does needs to be expressed....but it is expressed through proper goalkeeper techniques and training.
Its not the most important thing to teach and by no means should "Protecting Yourself" be expressed as to hurt anyone!

Thanks soccer Dad That is what my dd is taught also and why I started this post. The ref called her for raising her leg too high and told her she couldnt that high when they hit each other . Thats why good coaches tell keepers to protect themself more now because it is more physical now and in north Texas soccer its not like the videos they are posting where the striker tries to avoid the keeper or in the pro levels where they have all the flops and there rarely have any contact, In many cases they are aiming for the keeper and the keeper just needs to be tougher. That was my whole point from the beginning 7 pages ago. When the refs are penalizing keepers for protecting themselves and forwards are reward for running into the keeper esp on 50/50 balls.

 

Ggoat, you really don't get it and does not look like you will.  A keeper CANNOT raise her leg when a forward is running past her, after the keeper has missed the ball.  It is not protecting herself, it is a foul, always has been.  

Keepers take hits and that is just a part of playing the position.  They can't always protect themselves from those hits by putting their legs up or even putting their elbows out or sticking their fists out.  It just doesn't work that way.  It may stink that keepers just have to take the hits, but that is a hazard of the job and why they are probably the craziest players on the field and often the toughest.

It occurs to me that the non-keeper parents don't understand what GGoat means when she says "raising her leg."  It's not some hyper aggressive kung-fu move.   It's just this:

http://soccermommanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/collapse-dive.jpg

When performing a collapse dive, the knee is brought towards the torso and held at an angle to protect the keeper's torso from a stirker's kick follow through.  EVERY keeper is taught this.

It's possible that GGoat's DD may have inadvertently swung her leg high out at the striker and fouled her; there's no way to know without video. However, this form is definitely within the laws of the game.

I hope the information helps the discussion.

Agreed. But the way he makes it sound, and how adamant he is about this seems to make one lean a different direction. It sounds as if she is taught to take the opposing player out and you are within your rights since it will be deemed "protecting yourself". However, anytime you miss the ball and take the player out, its a foul. Black and white.

00GKdad wrote:It occurs to me that the non-keeper parents don't understand what GGoat means when she says "raising her leg."  It's not some hyper aggressive kung-fu move.   It's just this:

http://soccermommanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/collapse-dive.jpg

When performing a collapse dive, the knee is brought towards the torso and held at an angle to protect the keeper's torso from a stirker's kick follow through.  EVERY keeper is taught this.

It's possible that GGoat's DD may have inadvertently swung her leg high out at the striker and fouled her; there's no way to know without video.  However, this form is definitely within the laws of the game.

I hope the information helps the discussion.

Just posting the pic for us lazy peeps (like me)......Now thats some good form here!

Where's the round house kick to take out the forward...sorry I mean to protect themselves!  

The second reason for a raised keeper’s leg is to help them get back up for second attempts. What looks like a kick sometimes is momentum to get up. We didn’t see the OP’s play in question.

If a forward runs into a keeper’s leg that’s obstruction of an obvious save…red card to the attacker…for those that believe I believe this, relax! 

HA, although I hesitate to question an authority such as "The Soccer Mom Manual", if little Johnny in the picture missed the ball and his leg is up that high and trips a forward going for the ball, it is a PK, everytime.

Unicorns wrote:HA, although I hesitate to question an authority such as "The Soccer Mom Manual", if little Johnny in the picture missed the ball and his leg is up that high and trips a forward going for the ball, it is a PK, everytime.

 

I Googled and chose the source most appropriate for the audience. Feel free to ask your DD's club GK coach about the proper form, if you like.