Why is there No protection given to Keepers anymore

GGoat wrote:Yep 2028 thats what we say also thats why she got the Pk this weekend she is very tough and has had a pk called on her before. She says I dont care how hard they hit and how bad it hurts Im going to get up first and she usually does. The striker will roll around on the ground trying  for a call. Triumph was saying keepers are wimpy not tough and they are afforded too much protection. I guess everyone is missing the point Im making which is Keepers are now fair game and expected to be tougher than all the rest and its normal for them to be run into run over and knocked down and like you said they have to be tough but risk a red card and a pk which will change the outcome of the game. So it is a 2 edged sword in which if the keepers is called with a penalty or red card it effects the game if the forward is called is has very little effect on the game and when was the last time you saw a forward given a red or yellow when not getting to a 50 50 ball first and hitting the keeper I havent seen it in a long time or like soc dad says ever. When a ref says raising you leg too high when she dives for a 1v1 ball the ref is saying to the keeper not to protect themself.  I guess thats why keepers arnt protected any more because it is expected for them to take the hits and be tougher than everyone else.

GGoat wrote:Its me its the same dive her odp, select, high school coaches and colleges camp coaches have taught her to bring you knee to your chest to protect your chest and abd when you are going for a ball on the ground. its taught everywhere just like bringing your knee up when going for a high ball. They have been teaching it keepers for ever. Im saying if your going to call the keeper for not getting to the ball first then you should call the forward for not getting to the ball first also or dont call either and let them play

Its Me wrote:
Here's what I look for in that situation was: (All within a few seconds during the play)
- Did the keeper touch the ball
- If not, what was his/her position afterwards. Did they tuck to protect themselves or did they make themselves larger?
- Did the leg go up as a natural movement or position?
- Did the keeper raise the leg to keep the player from jumping over her to keep them from playing the ball.
- What age am I reffing?
- What technical level is the game?
- If I call the foul does the keeper deserve a "card".
- Does the game need a card due to previous fouls or temperature of the game?
- If I'm not sure.  Let me take a second to consult with my AR to see what they saw so as to not make a hasty decision.
- Do I give a card because the parents are yelling at me?
  (Just joking here!  I never let the parents or coaches influence my game because it's not fair the other team)

Coach&Ref wrote:

Its Me wrote:
Here's what I look for in that situation was: (All within a few seconds during the play)
- Did the keeper touch the ball
- If not, what was his/her position afterwards. Did they tuck to protect themselves or did they make themselves larger?
- Did the leg go up as a natural movement or position?
- Did the keeper raise the leg to keep the player from jumping over her to keep them from playing the ball.
- What age am I reffing?
- What technical level is the game?
- If I call the foul does the keeper deserve a "card".
- Does the game need a card due to previous fouls or temperature of the game?
- If I'm not sure.  Let me take a second to consult with my AR to see what they saw so as to not make a hasty decision.
- Do I give a card because the parents are yelling at me?
  (Just joking here!  I never let the parents or coaches influence my game because it's not fair the other team)

Spot on! The only thing I would add, at the older age groups, is, [b]"Was this a DOGSO?" Exactly!

Its Me wrote:
However, once they place a "finger" on the ball and take possession.  It's the refs job to be in position to protect the keeper.

GGoat wrote:Soc dad when was the last time you saw a red card given or even a call made when the keeper gets run into kicked or knocked down when they get to the ball first it rarely ever happens any more thats what im saying in my post

WestsideSoccer wrote:

beastmaster wrote:

GGoat wrote:Ok what ever I guess I just made up the fact that she was called for a pk in a 1-1 tied game. The ref stated that she lifted her leg too high when she dove and the other poster made up the fact that the keeper was given a red card in another game this weekend and soc dad made up the fact that in the liverpool game the keeper was laid out and no card was given. I have never said that the position is not safe or she should play another position. The examples I gave happens every weekend here in north texas and a lot of it happened this weekend. The point is when a striker runs into a keeper there is usually no call made and even if the call is made it doesn't have a bearing on the game thats why they keep doing it hoping for a call or a loose ball But when the ref Calls a keeper for raising her leg too high or red carding a keeper and taking them out of a game it changes the entire game. Im sorry your dd got a bruise she should probably stay in the stands for a while. Every game every day strikers run into keepers it is part of the game but refs like you are the problem and continue to let it happen. If your not going to call it when the striker hits the keeper then dont call it when the keeper hits the stikers and change the outcome of the game.Yours and the triumphs comments that my dd not tough enough to play and all that bs just shows what kind of people you are. Yall are probably the stereotypical coaches and refs that give youth soccer a bad name. good luck and good by My question was answered thanks

If my dd lifts her leg high and trips another player I would totally expect her to be called for it. So your point is what? Sounds to me like the ref is correct. Keepers aren't immune from receiving cards.  And in the case of the LP keeper, the ref called it in favor of the keeper. No card was given,  but LP still received the ball.  

Play was stopped since both players were down, BUT..... the LP Keeper made the save and had the ball, even with the contact she held on to the ball!!!!  Made it easy for the ref to give it back to the LP keeper

orbitzone2000 wrote:I agree with the original poster in this case.

As a keeper myself for 15 + years and the father of a keeper I'm probably a little bias when it comes to these issues. I have found that referees are getting really relaxed in the calls they are giving to the young GK's these days. Make no mistake about it, if the ball resides in the 18 yard box the keeper has the right away. I see this a lot with the aggressive forwards that are being taught and trained to play through the keeper most of the time. I and my DD's keeper coach train her to protect herself at all times. This is because there are a lot of wreckless players that will try and go through a keeper to play a ball. Let's not kid ourselves here. Keepers are at a great disadvantage when it comes to 1v1 situations. They should be protected. Referees are way to quick to award PK's. In almost every situation a keeper should be given the benefit of the doubt unless it's obvious that they have made a wreckless attempt to play the player and not the ball. If a keeper charges and is attempting to make a play on the ball and the forward gets a shot off and said GK does not get a touch on the ball, there after the forwards momentum carries them into the keeper and causing them to go tumbling, I would suggest a no call is deemed in that situation. The keeper has the right to the ball and it is up to the forward to get the shot off and get out of the way. Most good forwards will get out of the way after the shot as they see the keeper coming. Samething on set pcs from the corner or outside the box. Many players are crashing the goal and the keeper goes up to win the ball, I have seen way to many officials allow contact in that situation.

I also want to add the obvious. GK is the hardest position on the field and most physical. Although I'm not condoning the actions of many referees and there erroneous calls on GK's, I will say if your BB or DD plan on being an effective keeper, they must be fearless. Don't be afraid of giving away a PK or getting a card. As long as they are playing the ball they are playing within the perimeters of the rules.

orbitzone2000 wrote:I agree with the original poster in this case.

As a keeper myself for 15 + years and the father of a keeper I'm probably a little bias when it comes to these issues. I have found that referees are getting really relaxed in the calls they are giving to the young GK's these days. Make no mistake about it, if the ball resides in the 18 yard box the keeper has the right away. I see this a lot with the aggressive forwards that are being taught and trained to play through the keeper most of the time. I and my DD's keeper coach train her to protect herself at all times. This is because there are a lot of wreckless players that will try and go through a keeper to play a ball. Let's not kid ourselves here. Keepers are at a great disadvantage when it comes to 1v1 situations. They should be protected. Referees are way to quick to award PK's. In almost every situation a keeper should be given the benefit of the doubt unless it's obvious that they have made a wreckless attempt to play the player and not the ball. If a keeper charges and is attempting to make a play on the ball and the forward gets a shot off and said GK does not get a touch on the ball, there after the forwards momentum carries them into the keeper and causing them to go tumbling, I would suggest a no call is deemed in that situation. The keeper has the right to the ball and it is up to the forward to get the shot off and get out of the way. Most good forwards will get out of the way after the shot as they see the keeper coming. Samething on set pcs from the corner or outside the box. Many players are crashing the goal and the keeper goes up to win the ball, I have seen way to many officials allow contact in that situation.

I also want to add the obvious. GK is the hardest position on the field and most physical. Although I'm not condoning the actions of many referees and there erroneous calls on GK's, I will say if your BB or DD plan on being an effective keeper, they must be fearless. Don't be afraid of giving away a PK or getting a card. As long as they are playing the ball they are playing within the perimeters of the rules.

4-3-3 wrote:

orbitzone2000 wrote:I agree with the original poster in this case.

As a keeper myself for 15 + years and the father of a keeper I'm probably a little bias when it comes to these issues. I have found that referees are getting really relaxed in the calls they are giving to the young GK's these days. Make no mistake about it, if the ball resides in the 18 yard box the keeper has the right away. I see this a lot with the aggressive forwards that are being taught and trained to play through the keeper most of the time. I and my DD's keeper coach train her to protect herself at all times. This is because there are a lot of wreckless players that will try and go through a keeper to play a ball. Let's not kid ourselves here. Keepers are at a great disadvantage when it comes to 1v1 situations. They should be protected. Referees are way to quick to award PK's. In almost every situation a keeper should be given the benefit of the doubt unless it's obvious that they have made a wreckless attempt to play the player and not the ball. If a keeper charges and is attempting to make a play on the ball and the forward gets a shot off and said GK does not get a touch on the ball, there after the forwards momentum carries them into the keeper and causing them to go tumbling, I would suggest a no call is deemed in that situation. The keeper has the right to the ball and it is up to the forward to get the shot off and get out of the way. Most good forwards will get out of the way after the shot as they see the keeper coming. Samething on set pcs from the corner or outside the box. Many players are crashing the goal and the keeper goes up to win the ball, I have seen way to many officials allow contact in that situation.

I also want to add the obvious. GK is the hardest position on the field and most physical. Although I'm not condoning the actions of many referees and there erroneous calls on GK's, I will say if your BB or DD plan on being an effective keeper, they must be fearless. Don't be afraid of giving away a PK or getting a card. As long as they are playing the ball they are playing within the perimeters of the rules.

This is nonsense on so many levels. First you haven't read the LOTG . The keeper doesnt have anymore right to the ball than anyone else in the field. The reason most fwds get out of the way is because keepers at the top level are typically among the biggest and most aggressive on the field and they know 95pct of time any collision on a 50:50 with a keeper they are going to get cleaned out.

Keepers are the only players using their hands, cover the least distance, and require the least amount of athleticism....how anyone could conclude it's the most difficult position is beyond me. How many times do we see a tall fwd converted to keeper at 14 or 15 amd they become a standout leapfrogging the keepers who've stood in goal since ulittles? Most young teams you can take any great athlete field player, put them in goal, and they may not give you much on punts and goalkicks, but they'll be as good or better shot stoppers than majority of full time keepers.  

Keepers are usually the only players still capable of playing at the highest levels well into their late 30s and 40s....it's a specialist set of skills, and while the pool of people wanting to do it is much smaller, that doesn't make it the most difficult. I'd argue it's the easiest position from a physical perspective.

Keepers are protected enough already. Most all refs give benefit of doubt to keepers in the box. The laws of the game require very little for a keeper to establish posession. They're not at any disadvantage IMO other than their relative lack of athleticism...they're the only ones using hands and usually have more pads and gloves than anyone. The keepers who truly are as good athletes as field players already have a huge advantage in the box, and that's why they can command control. But argueing that keepers should be allowed to mug opponents without playing the ball because it's the fwds job to get out of the way is ridiculous.

10sDad wrote:Funniest call I saw was a huge breakaway where the keeper came out...got ball (and forward)...forward and keeper on the ground, and the ball is loose about 3 yards from the mouth of the goal - just sitting there.  Forward springs up and tries to get to the ball, but the keeper hangs on to the forward's ankle for dear life.  Forward literally drags the keeper for about 3-4 yards when the whistle is blown.  Red card given to the forward for "kicking the keeper".  It was an out of town tournament, and we were playing a local team, so....but still...really?

GGoat wrote:

10sDad wrote:Funniest call I saw was a huge breakaway where the keeper came out...got ball (and forward)...forward and keeper on the ground, and the ball is loose about 3 yards from the mouth of the goal - just sitting there.  Forward springs up and tries to get to the ball, but the keeper hangs on to the forward's ankle for dear life.  Forward literally drags the keeper for about 3-4 yards when the whistle is blown.  Red card given to the forward for "kicking the keeper".  It was an out of town tournament, and we were playing a local team, so....but still...really?

Now thats what I call protecting the keeper and the home team LOL. Thats funny all the refs on here will say
1. Did the kick happen on a tuesday and was it cloudy or sunny
2. How far did she drag her
3. THAT WAS THE RIGHT CALL
4.The proper technique for the forward was to keep her shoelaces loose so she can get out of her shoe quickly
5. You need to talk to her coaches and have them teach the proper technique
6. That was the right call
lol  

Its Me wrote:Again,
You mentioned that your daughter has been playing for 7 years. What age group is your daughter playing and what division?  Why is this so hard to get an answer?

4-3-3 wrote:

This is nonsense on so many levels. First you haven't read the LOTG . The keeper doesnt have anymore right to the ball than anyone else in the field. The reason most fwds get out of the way is because keepers at the top level are typically among the biggest and most aggressive on the field and they know 95pct of time any collision on a 50:50 with a keeper they are going to get cleaned out.

Keepers are the only players using their hands, cover the least distance, and require the least amount of athleticism BS....how anyone could conclude it's the most difficult position is beyond me. How many times do we see a tall fwd converted to keeper at 14 or 15 amd they become a standout leapfrogging the keepers who've stood in goal since ulittles? Most young teams you can take any great athlete field player, put them in goal, and they may not give you much on punts and goalkicks, but they'll be as good or better shot stoppers than majority of full time keepers.  

Keepers are usually the only players still capable of playing at the highest levels well into their late 30s and 40s....it's a specialist set of skills, and while the pool of people wanting to do it is much smaller, that doesn't make it the most difficult. I'd argue it's the easiest position from a physical perspective.Once again BS!

Keepers are protected enough already. Most all refs give benefit of doubt to keepers in the box. The laws of the game require very little for a keeper to establish posession. They're not at any disadvantage IMO other than their relative lack of athleticismA lot more BS!!...they're the only ones using hands and usually have more pads and gloves than anyone. The keepers who truly are as good athletes as field players already have a huge advantage in the box, and that's why they can command control. But argueing that keepers should be allowed to mug opponents without playing the ball because it's the fwds job to get out of the way is ridiculous.

Its Me wrote:Again,
You mentioned that your daughter has been playing for 7 years. What age group is your daughter playing and what division?  Why is this so hard to get an answer?

orbitzone2000 wrote:I agree with the original poster in this case.

As a keeper myself for 15 + years and the father of a keeper I'm probably a little bias when it comes to these issues. I have found that referees are getting really relaxed in the calls they are giving to the young GK's these days. Make no mistake about it, if the ball resides in the 18 yard box the keeper has the right away. I see this a lot with the aggressive forwards that are being taught and trained to play through the keeper most of the time. I and my DD's keeper coach train her to protect herself at all times. This is because there are a lot of wreckless players that will try and go through a keeper to play a ball. Let's not kid ourselves here. Keepers are at a great disadvantage when it comes to 1v1 situations. They should be protected. Referees are way to quick to award PK's. In almost every situation a keeper should be given the benefit of the doubt unless it's obvious that they have made a wreckless attempt to play the player and not the ball. If a keeper charges and is attempting to make a play on the ball and the forward gets a shot off and said GK does not get a touch on the ball, there after the forwards momentum carries them into the keeper and causing them to go tumbling, I would suggest a no call is deemed in that situation. The keeper has the right to the ball and it is up to the forward to get the shot off and get out of the way. Most good forwards will get out of the way after the shot as they see the keeper coming. Samething on set pcs from the corner or outside the box. Many players are crashing the goal and the keeper goes up to win the ball, I have seen way to many officials allow contact in that situation.

I also want to add the obvious. GK is the hardest position on the field and most physical. Although I'm not condoning the actions of many referees and there erroneous calls on GK's, I will say if your BB or DD plan on being an effective keeper, they must be fearless. Don't be afraid of giving away a PK or getting a card. As long as they are playing the ball they are playing within the perimeters of the rules.

GGoat wrote:

WestsideSoccer wrote:

beastmaster wrote:

GGoat wrote:Ok what ever I guess I just made up the fact that she was called for a pk in a 1-1 tied game. The ref stated that she lifted her leg too high when she dove and the other poster made up the fact that the keeper was given a red card in another game this weekend and soc dad made up the fact that in the liverpool game the keeper was laid out and no card was given. I have never said that the position is not safe or she should play another position. The examples I gave happens every weekend here in north texas and a lot of it happened this weekend. The point is when a striker runs into a keeper there is usually no call made and even if the call is made it doesn't have a bearing on the game thats why they keep doing it hoping for a call or a loose ball But when the ref Calls a keeper for raising her leg too high or red carding a keeper and taking them out of a game it changes the entire game. Im sorry your dd got a bruise she should probably stay in the stands for a while. Every game every day strikers run into keepers it is part of the game but refs like you are the problem and continue to let it happen. If your not going to call it when the striker hits the keeper then dont call it when the keeper hits the stikers and change the outcome of the game.Yours and the triumphs comments that my dd not tough enough to play and all that bs just shows what kind of people you are. Yall are probably the stereotypical coaches and refs that give youth soccer a bad name. good luck and good by My question was answered thanks

If my dd lifts her leg high and trips another player I would totally expect her to be called for it. So your point is what? Sounds to me like the ref is correct. Keepers aren't immune from receiving cards.  And in the case of the LP keeper, the ref called it in favor of the keeper. No card was given,  but LP still received the ball.  

Play was stopped since both players were down, BUT..... the LP Keeper made the save and had the ball, even with the contact she held on to the ball!!!!  Made it easy for the ref to give it back to the LP keeper

Thank you west side this is the exact thing I am talking about. If the Lp keeper hadnt got to the ball first most people here think there should be a pk given and or a card given since the keeper didnt get to the ball and the player went down. But she did get to the ball first was ran over and knocked down and no call was made and the keeper got the ball back so that should be good enough right. Wrong there are little to no conscience for the forward to hit the keeper at worst they get a red card and kicked out of the game which rarely happens or they dont call anything like in this case and give the ball back to the keeper. The outcome is the same weather she collides with her or not. At best she knocks the ball loose and scores or gets a call and gets a Pk. The positive far outways the negative and thats why you see it done more often and until the refs start calling it and not thinking like many of the refs on this forum feel that the keeper needs to get tougher or they need to dive or dont dive a certain way it will continue. It is just the way the game has evolved here in North Texas I guess

scrappy wrote:

Its Me wrote:Again,
You mentioned that your daughter has been playing for 7 years. What age group is your daughter playing and what division?  Why is this so hard to get an answer?

if the DD started playing at age 3, so 7 years later would make her U11.  If recent game action or outcome motivated this posting, then DD must be playing in the LH QT.  I have to conclude poster has 2 options.  Sit back and enjoy DD develop as a goalie or find another sport that doesn't involve referees.

I have seen awesome youth goalies at different levels of play.  A well trained goalie against solid competition will use a variety of moves to make saves including colliding on 50/50 balls.  Some days the calls go in favor of the goalie and at other times they go against.  It's just part of the game.

ONLYASOCCERDAD wrote:

scrappy wrote:

Its Me wrote:Again,
You mentioned that your daughter has been playing for 7 years. What age group is your daughter playing and what division?  Why is this so hard to get an answer?

if the DD started playing at age 3, so 7 years later would make her U11.  If recent game action or outcome motivated this posting, then DD must be playing in the LH QT.  I have to conclude poster has 2 options.  Sit back and enjoy DD develop as a goalie or find another sport that doesn't involve referees.

I have seen awesome youth goalies at different levels of play.  A well trained goalie against solid competition will use a variety of moves to make saves including colliding on 50/50 balls.  Some days the calls go in favor of the goalie and at other times they go against.  It's just part of the game.

where i was raised, teams were not allowed to have a goalie until u8. so how old is OP dd?

4-3-3 wrote:Persuasive stuff there Firebird.   Go look up the professional salaries by position and tell me which one is the lowest. Then explain why would the most difficult and physically challenging position be the lowest paid?

Keepers are critical to a great team...no denying that. Mentally and psychologically, I could agree keep could be the most difficult position. But physically?  No way. Not even close.

Not saying keepers are generally unathletic, but RELATIVE to field players, they are generally not on the same level. Most teams the keepers don't have the level of fitness or agility as field players, and any physical tests the team does, keepers have a hard time keeping up or are held to a lower standard. Their athleticism is more the type that translates to success in volleyball. I don't think there is any rational argument justifying keeper as the most physically challenging position in the game. Love to hear one though.