Texas Rush expanding to North Texas?

Where is the proof that they can develop players? They have a bunch of academy kids but only 2 relevant LHGCL teams. To have a big academy system, all you need is to find a couple of coaches, spread them out around the far corners of the Metroplex, throw some cones down and claim to develop players. It really is genius on LP's part.

Uncle Numanga wrote:Where is the proof that they can develop players? They have a bunch of academy kids but only 2 relevant LHGCL teams. To have a big academy system, all you need is to find a couple of coaches, spread them out around the far corners of the Metroplex, throw some cones down and claim to develop players. It really is genius on LP's part.

Or you could put a couple of fast girls up top and teach your girls to drive the ball up the field.

And call yourself the Texans.

Think that was a direct hit to you Big Tex...............

TallTexxan wrote:

Uncle Numanga wrote:Where is the proof that they can develop players? They have a bunch of academy kids but only 2 relevant LHGCL teams. To have a big academy system, all you need is to find a couple of coaches, spread them out around the far corners of the Metroplex, throw some cones down and claim to develop players. It really is genius on LP's part.

Or you could put a couple of fast girls up top and teach your girls to drive the ball up the field.

And call yourself the Texans.

Uncle Numanga wrote:Where is the proof that they can develop players? They have a bunch of academy kids but only 2 relevant LHGCL teams. To have a big academy system, all you need is to find a couple of coaches, spread them out around the far corners of the Metroplex, throw some cones down and claim to develop players. It really is genius on LP's part.

I was not addressing GO's previous proclamations about LP, ECNL or attempting to analyze LP's business model, but commenting on her displeasure with ECNL clubs growing at the expense of LP.

Instead of debating GO's rantings, my starting assumption was to treat all of her information and concerns regarding ECNL (evil, over-rated, and corrupt), LP (unfairly excluded from ECNL, develops players at academy level, only to have them "bought" later when ECNL age), as factual.

My disagreement was with GO's contention that player movement between clubs is somehow unhealthy or unfair because five other clubs with ECNL status capitalize on the shortcoming of a club without it.

If building big academies with lots of successful teams is so easy, why isn't everybody doing it?

I mean everybody can throw down cones and call it 'development' right?

the7wolf wrote:If building big academies with lots of successful teams is so easy, why isn't everybody doing it?

I mean everybody can throw down cones and call it 'development' right?

Lots of successful teams? What age groups are we talking about here? I don't think Liverpool has a single successful academy team that came through its academy into select. Surely you didn't forget that the 98s and 00s came through FC Dallas' academy.

Seems kind of premature to call u6-10 teams successful to me, but I guess if its all you've got to hang your hat on then its understandable.

Gunners wrote:

the7wolf wrote:If building big academies with lots of successful teams is so easy, why isn't everybody doing it?

I mean everybody can throw down cones and call it 'development' right?

Lots of successful teams? What age groups are we talking about here? I don't think Liverpool has a single successful academy team that came through its academy into select. Surely you didn't forget that the 98s and 00s came through FC Dallas' academy.

Seems kind of premature to call u6-10 teams successful to me, but I guess if its all you've got to hang your hat on then its understandable.

Well all success is relative right? The academy teams are successful within the environment they are in at the moment and for a club barely 5 years old, they've got a lot of good teams in place to come through. If your definition of success is having only #1 teams then within academy or select, not a wide range of clubs can claim much but I'd say any top #10 team either in academy or select could be defined as successful compared to the rest.

I know the old school want Liverpool to fail as the new kid on the block and somehow can see 10 years in the future with ECNL intentions but the fact is, Liverpool are a dang sight better placed than most at this point to graduate multiple successful teams on the boys and girls side from academy to select.

Uncle Numanga wrote:Where is the proof that they can develop players? They have a bunch of academy kids but only 2 relevant LHGCL teams. To have a big academy system, all you need is to find a couple of coaches, spread them out around the far corners of the Metroplex, throw some cones down and claim to develop players. It really is genius on LP's part.

I hope LP will mend their ways and start sticking strictly with talent they've developed in Academy as their teams progress into LHGCL, and perhaps one day, to ECNL.

I'm sure they could learn a thing or two from the Texans about never simply poaching top talent trained by someone else.

the7wolf wrote:If building big academies with lots of successful teams is so easy, why isn't everybody doing it?

I mean everybody can throw down cones and call it 'development' right?

Aren't you a Liverpool coach? I would fully expect for you to stick to the script. Big Academy means big development. The proof is in the success of the select teams that came through the system. 5 years of development should show some results. I sure can't find any. As Gunners pointed out, the only success LP has had is with old FC Dallas Academy teams.

Uncle Numanga wrote:

the7wolf wrote:If building big academies with lots of successful teams is so easy, why isn't everybody doing it?

I mean everybody can throw down cones and call it 'development' right?

Aren't you a Liverpool coach? I would fully expect for you to stick to the script. Big Academy means big development. The proof is in the success of the select teams that came through the system. 5 years of development should show some results. I sure can't find any. As Gunners pointed out, the only success LP has had is with old FC Dallas Academy teams.

I believe in the first 2 years, the club only had about 8 teams and I'm not sure any of those were academy so really you're looking at 3 years history at best. That's not a lot of history to judge a club on. Do they have good academy teams now? Yes. Will that pattern now filter through to select? Only time will tell but you can't deny they haven't done a good job in the academy at the present time and as I said, if that's so easy as opposed to pure out recruiting at the 11th hour, everybody would be doing it.

the7wolf wrote:

Uncle Numanga wrote:

the7wolf wrote:If building big academies with lots of successful teams is so easy, why isn't everybody doing it?

I mean everybody can throw down cones and call it 'development' right?

Aren't you a Liverpool coach? I would fully expect for you to stick to the script. Big Academy means big development. The proof is in the success of the select teams that came through the system. 5 years of development should show some results. I sure can't find any. As Gunners pointed out, the only success LP has had is with old FC Dallas Academy teams.

I believe in the first 2 years, the club only had about 8 teams and I'm not sure any of those were academy so really you're looking at 3 years history at best. That's not a lot of history to judge a club on. Do they have good academy teams now? Yes. Will that pattern now filter through to select? Only time will tell but you can't deny they haven't done a good job in the academy at the present time and as I said, if that's so easy as opposed to pure out recruiting at the 11th hour, everybody would be doing it.

Or could it be because big academy is big $?

I think many forget that LP is not that old and its growth is fairly recent. They have show an ability to develop players in acvademy. Can they move then on and show success in select? That remains to be seen. Developing players and maintaing successful competative teams and showcasing its talent are all different things

If the club is only 5 years old, and evoking this type of debate, I am impressed. Seriously.

go99 wrote:I think many forget that LP is not that old and its growth is fairly recent. They have show an ability to develop players in acvademy. Can they move then on and show success in select? That remains to be seen. Developing players and maintaing successful competative teams and showcasing its talent are all different things

I am still trying to figure out how they have shown the ability to develop players. Shouldn't their 02 or 01 teams be good? Just because you say so doesn't make it true.

"Developing players and maintaining successful competitive teams and showcasing its talent are all different things." No it isn't. The old school clubs have been doing it for years. FC Dallas isn't that old of a club and it is leap years ahead of LP. They had a leg up coming from Inter but not that much.

FC Dallas have been around for 9-10 years and inherited some very strong groups from Dallas Inter. I was at Inter the year before they converted to FC Dallas. Big big difference.

the7wolf wrote:FC Dallas have been around for 9-10 years and inherited some very strong groups from Dallas Inter. I was at Inter the year before they converted to FC Dallas. Big big difference.

FC Dallas is 8 years old. Inter became FC Texas on July 1, 2005 with approximately 45 male and female teams. That's a pretty good start. It doesn't say when they changed the name to FC Dallas. Did LP start with the acquisition of a club or an established club changing their name to LP?

Also, the Liverpool FC website says that they celebrated their 5 year anniversary on July 1, 2011. That should make the club almost 7 years old.

Uncle Numanga wrote:

the7wolf wrote:FC Dallas have been around for 9-10 years and inherited some very strong groups from Dallas Inter. I was at Inter the year before they converted to FC Dallas. Big big difference.

FC Dallas is 8 years old. Inter became FC Texas on July 1, 2005 with approximately 45 male and female teams. That's a pretty good start. It doesn't say when they changed the name to FC Dallas. Did LP start with the acquisition of a club or an established club changing their name to LP?

Also, the Liverpool FC website says that they celebrated their 5 year anniversary on July 1, 2011. That should make the club almost 7 years old.

LP started with 5 teams the first year and 8 the second year. I don't believe there were any academy teams at that point although I may be wrong.

45 teams plus a few years head start, not to mention a pretty established coaching staff was a pretty decent advantage Unc.

There no doubt LP does have to prove itself over the next 2-3 years with the graduation of the 03/04/05 teams. The LP 01/02 class were never that strong. Nobody within or outside of the club will be letting them off easy if they fail to make an impact in select with the 03-05 groups.

Uncle Numanga wrote:

go99 wrote:I think many forget that LP is not that old and its growth is fairly recent. They have show an ability to develop players in acvademy. Can they move then on and show success in select? That remains to be seen. Developing players and maintaing successful competative teams and showcasing its talent are all different things

I am still trying to figure out how they have shown the ability to develop players. Shouldn't their 02 or 01 teams be good? Just because you say so doesn't make it true.

"Developing players and maintaining successful competitive teams and showcasing its talent are all different things." No it isn't. The old school clubs have been doing it for years. FC Dallas isn't that old of a club and it is leap years ahead of LP. They had a leg up coming from Inter but not that much.

Actually it is entirely different. My DD's coach has done a great job with his 04 team. That does not mean he can maintain a strong squad and carry them into select and have the same success. I like to believe he can but that is still unproven. LP started as a club very small and its rapid growth is very new. Nothing like FCD being a well established club that was bought under the FCD name. You don't like LP for whatever reason so you are arguing a point we actually agree on. LP hasn't proven they can manage successful select rosters. They have shown they can produce a number of successful academy teams. I say they are two different things if you say they are not then LP has proven everything.

I really don't care one way or the other about LP or any other club. After the ECNL National Championships, my dd is off to college in the fall and I am done with NTX soccer. I just like a good argument.

I just wish LP had provable results to back up their claim of superior development.

Their time to prove their results is actually coming up now as their first products start to head into select. It won't matter though. Unless they find an alternative or get into ECNL or Academy League they will be stuck as a second tier club

go99 wrote:Their time to prove their results is actually coming up now as their first products start to head into select. It won't matter though. Unless they find an alternative or get into ECNL or Academy League they will be stuck as a second tier club

I have been reading this thread with interest. I have enjoyed the banter. I agree with go here...LP had some lower LH and top PPL team (Nicol and Hughes) that both evaporated this past year.

One other issue that hasn't been approached is this (and I don't have too much firsthand info about this), but academy soccer is ruled by those "guess" players...so marked success at any level below select is truly a crapshoot. I am entertained reading about how X team is running with Y team's players to "get results" in leagues as well as tournaments. We see it some in tournaments in select (State Cup??), but how much of LPs success can be attributed to sharing players?? Is it comparable to Solar, Sting, and DT?? Is it more or less??

The leagues seem to me to be the truest measure of a "team's" success since the other games can be so easily manipulated until the very top rungs.

go99 wrote:Their time to prove their results is actually coming up now as their first products start to head into select. It won't matter though. Unless they find an alternative or get into ECNL or Academy League they will be stuck as a second tier club

Come on now, are you saying LP developed all the 04 talent? How many girls besides your dd started out with LW's and are still on his top team? Answer is 1...your dd. He has recruited and got girls from all kinds of other teams...including girls that were "developed" by ECNL clubs. So don't sit here and say LP is "developing" all these top teams. They are recruiting them just like you put down the ECNL teams for recruiting their players. Don't get me wrong, LW is a very good coach and coaches the right kind of soccer, but to say LP has "developed" all these kids is going a bit overboard!

the core of the RASE team has been together for mutiple seasons. How about you look at this development model. Look at the players now after multiple season and look at the teams they come from. They have outpaced the girls from those teams. The core of our team has been with LW longer than any other coach. But I am a big fan of recruiting and I don't put down ECNL teams for doing it. LP did develope the RASE team. Although I would say the girls were talented before ANY coach got hold of them.

go99 wrote:the core of the RASE team has been together for mutiple seasons. How about you look at this development model. Look at the players now after multiple season and look at the teams they come from. They have outpaced the girls from those teams. The core of our team has been with LW longer than any other coach. But I am a big fan of recruiting and I don't put down ECNL teams for doing it. LP did develope the RASE team. Although I would say the girls were talented before ANY coach got hold of them.

Agreed.
And it is reassuring to know that, in the zany NTX forum world, "contacting a coach in order to attend a practice with his team" is still considered "recruiting".

mcik17 wrote:

go99 wrote:Their time to prove their results is actually coming up now as their first products start to head into select. It won't matter though. Unless they find an alternative or get into ECNL or Academy League they will be stuck as a second tier club

Come on now, are you saying LP developed all the 04 talent? How many girls besides your dd started out with LW's and are still on his top team? Answer is 1...your dd. He has recruited and got girls from all kinds of other teams...including girls that were "developed" by ECNL clubs. So don't sit here and say LP is "developing" all these top teams. They are recruiting them just like you put down the ECNL teams for recruiting their players. Don't get me wrong, LW is a very good coach and coaches the right kind of soccer, but to say LP has "developed" all these kids is going a bit overboard!

Can anyone tell me the difference between:

That talented player coming to the team flourished.

or

That talented player flourished under that coach.

Sounds the same to me. How can people say a coach is not developing players. If a talented player has flourished under the coach, how can that player "not" be developing.

You can start off with a team from rec, and develop them, but they can run into a gifted talented team and you will probably see the difference. You see it all the time in college basketball. You have the Cinderella's and you have the "Gifted" loaded teams.

You can only take a developed (Cinderella) team so far. Its been said multiple time on this forum, better players migrate to better teams. I don't see coaches turning away gifted players because he/she is worried about not developing them..

Im sure whether you knew it or not, a few of the players on your DD's team has the (above talented) gifted gene in them. I'm sure this will make the coaches job easier in life. In other words, not all kids will have the same gifted abilities. There will be limitations.

So unless "other" talented players migrate to your DD's team, her team will always be that "Cinderella".