Solar Coaches Not Being Paid??

ballhead wrote:

InaB wrote:Well, it is certainly a catch 22 event to be sure. And I understand why a coach would be frustrated - even angry. I still believe that my thoughts are correct - whether it is right, wrong o r indifferent. Best regards.

Would you feel that way if you relied on that pay to make ends meet and to feed your family and your employer decided not to pay you because they were purchasing something? I don't know of anyone, besides you, that would be okay with an employer unilaterally withholding pay with no notice or consent.

A lot of coaches, like many in America, live paycheck to paycheck. Solar's actions affect more than just a few coaches, they have families to support, too.

Where's all of the word about the Solar coaches leaving in droves? Where's all the advertisements on the board for "Club/Team X - Coach Z (formerly Solar Y - Coach Z)" looking for players?

If I was relying on that paycheck to make ends meet and I hadn't been paid in 2 months, I sure as heck wouldn't be sticking around, and as much as I may like the kids and parents on my current team, I certainly wouldn't put keeping the team together ahead of putting food on my table.

Yet we aren't hearing about all of that movement???
Something isn't adding up 100% here...

bwgophers wrote:

ballhead wrote:

InaB wrote:Well, it is certainly a catch 22 event to be sure. And I understand why a coach would be frustrated - even angry. I still believe that my thoughts are correct - whether it is right, wrong o r indifferent. Best regards.

Would you feel that way if you relied on that pay to make ends meet and to feed your family and your employer decided not to pay you because they were purchasing something? I don't know of anyone, besides you, that would be okay with an employer unilaterally withholding pay with no notice or consent.

A lot of coaches, like many in America, live paycheck to paycheck. Solar's actions affect more than just a few coaches, they have families to support, too.

Where's all of the word about the Solar coaches leaving in droves? Where's all the advertisements on the board for "Club/Team X - Coach Z (formerly Solar Y - Coach Z)" looking for players?

If I was relying on that paycheck to make ends meet and I hadn't been paid in 2 months, I sure as heck wouldn't be sticking around, and as much as I may like the kids and parents on my current team, I certainly wouldn't put keeping the team together ahead of putting food on my table.

Yet we aren't hearing about all of that movement???
Something isn't adding up 100% here...

If the money is being promised as imminent, and as hard as it is to move a team, I can clearly see why all the movement you're expecting hasn't happened.

At some point, though, that patience will wear thin. I haven't heard anyone argue that they're actually being paid, so what is it that you think is suspect? Even InaB sounds like she's had contact with Solar and she got a satisfactory (to her) reason why they're not paying, so its seems inarguable that there is an issue with paying coaches.

They keep promising that pay is imminent, but.....a few days have turned into a month with little, if any communication...

ballhead wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

ballhead wrote:

InaB wrote:Well, it is certainly a catch 22 event to be sure. And I understand why a coach would be frustrated - even angry. I still believe that my thoughts are correct - whether it is right, wrong o r indifferent. Best regards.

Would you feel that way if you relied on that pay to make ends meet and to feed your family and your employer decided not to pay you because they were purchasing something? I don't know of anyone, besides you, that would be okay with an employer unilaterally withholding pay with no notice or consent.

A lot of coaches, like many in America, live paycheck to paycheck. Solar's actions affect more than just a few coaches, they have families to support, too.

Where's all of the word about the Solar coaches leaving in droves? Where's all the advertisements on the board for "Club/Team X - Coach Z (formerly Solar Y - Coach Z)" looking for players?

If I was relying on that paycheck to make ends meet and I hadn't been paid in 2 months, I sure as heck wouldn't be sticking around, and as much as I may like the kids and parents on my current team, I certainly wouldn't put keeping the team together ahead of putting food on my table.

Yet we aren't hearing about all of that movement???
Something isn't adding up 100% here...

If the money is being promised as imminent, and as hard as it is to move a team, I can clearly see why all the movement you're expecting hasn't happened.

At some point, though, that patience will wear thin. I haven't heard anyone argue that they're actually being paid, so what is it that you think is suspect? Even InaB sounds like she's had contact with Solar and she got a satisfactory (to her) reason why they're not paying, so its seems inarguable that there is an issue with paying coaches.

My whole point is that we clearly don't have the entire story. If the story was as cut-and-dry as what the previous posts on this thread have suggested, we'd see coaches jumping ship like crazy. Sorry, but I'm just not buying that all of the Solar coaches are either so loyal, or so stupid, as to not get paid for 2 months, yet all of them appear to be sticking around???

I don't know what the story is. Maybe all of the Solar coaches have great day jobs? Maybe Solar has some kind of "iron-clad" financal deal in the works that has convinced all of the coaches that they'll get paid (all back pay included, plus "loyalty" bonuses) in the very near future? Maybe Solar has compromising photos of all of their coaches that they are threatening to leak to the internet if coaches leave? Maybe, our information about all of the Solar coaches not get paid for 2 months so the club can buy a pile of dirt isn't 100% accurate? Maybe it's something else entirely???

My point is that if you put some simple logical thought to the scenarios being thrown around out there, they just don't add up.

...and that doesn't even start to address that parents/players... wouldn't that send a HUGE red flag up to you if you were a Solar parent and you heard that you were paying the club, but your coach wasn't getting paid??? I would think that would send just a few families running for the fire exits... I guess we'll find out soon enough now that June 1st is here... If you start hearing of a bunch of Solar players showing up at Texans, Sting, D'Feeters, FC Dallas, Kicks, TFC, Andromeda, Mustangs, American Eagles, FWFC, Cosmos, etc. practices next week, then you'll have your answer...

Well a coach jumping ship is not going to get paid at a new club until at least July 1 true?? Ride the wave and hopefully they get paid is my guess...

TheCrystalBall wrote:Well a coach jumping ship is not going to get paid at a new club until at least July 1 true?? Ride the wave and hopefully they get paid is my guess...

I dunno... if I was in that situation, I think I'd jump ship ASAP to a club that hasn't had any recent history of financial/embezzlement issues or issues with paying it's coaches. Start working on getting my new team in place BEFORE July 1st instead of after July 1st, rather than wait around to see if the club that stiffed me for the past 2 months is going to be able to pay me again starting July 1st...

...and don't you think the vultures at all of the other clubs would be smelling blood in the water and going after those coaches to bring their teams with their LH byes and $40k + in revenue to their clubs???

Word get's leaked out about my DD's little '01 D2 team making a coach/club switch and it's all over this board in no time, yet no rumors being floated out there about any one of Solar's 3 '01 LH teams making a move in the face of "paygate"???

Maybe I'm wrong, but the logical enginerd in me is saying "no compute"...

I just know where there is smoke there is fire. Good luck to whoever wants to go inside a house where there is smoke or who is still in the the house & notices the smoke & for whatever the reason decides not to react.

bwgophers wrote:

TheCrystalBall wrote:Well a coach jumping ship is not going to get paid at a new club until at least July 1 true?? Ride the wave and hopefully they get paid is my guess...

I dunno... if I was in that situation, I think I'd jump ship ASAP to a club that hasn't had any recent history of financial/embezzlement issues or issues with paying it's coaches. Start working on getting my new team in place BEFORE July 1st instead of after July 1st, rather than wait around to see if the club that stiffed me for the past 2 months is going to be able to pay me again starting July 1st...

...and don't you think the vultures at all of the other clubs would be smelling blood in the water and going after those coaches to bring their teams with their LH byes and $40k + in revenue to their clubs???

Word get's leaked out about my DD's little '01 D2 team making a coach/club switch and it's all over this board in no time, yet no rumors being floated out there about any one of Solar's 3 '01 LH teams making a move in the face of "paygate"???

Maybe I'm wrong, but the logical enginerd in me is saying "no compute"...

This happened two years ago, when the 800K disappeared. Coaches weren't paid for periods of time, but you didn't see a lot of movement then, either.

Solar coaches (and, I think, most coaches) develop a loyalty to their teams and players. If the money is just around the corner, most will wait it out. It is unlikely that a coach will gather all the team's parents together and say "I didn't get paid last month or this month, let's move", in fact, I don't believe most parents have been told anything about this by their coaches, there are just these rumors floating around. The risk in discussing such with parents is that some parents may be on the fence about returning, or they may be being recruited by another club. The financial issues could be enough to scare a parent or two, causing a negative effect on the team. A coach can really be in a quandary about what to do, especially if the money is coming in the next day, or week, or whatever.

Go back and take a look at what happened the last time, and you'll see this really isn't very different. Good group of coaches with good teams, being treated poorly by their club. Last time, it was easier to understand. Someone allegedly embezzled a bunch of money. Don't know exactly where the money is this time, but I suspect, based on InaB's comments its tied up in acquiring the magical Solar complex that has been coming for many years.

As far as getting "all the facts", it'll never happen. I've never seen any club in North Texas (or anywhere else, for that matter) that is that up front and willing to hang out the dirty laundry without a healthy spin on it.

Would I tolerate it? Not if I had any other options, but I understand why they do. Its really a shame.

Well coaches coach, at some point they are free to take their teams wherever they want if they are not getting paid, but why do so until they wait it out....

My understanding about Solar was that coaches are paid directly by their team(s). Each team maintains its own finances, paying some amount to the club, including coach salary. Is this incorrect?

Yes

OK, I am doing a bit of a hijack of this thread to ask a couple of questions. How many coaches coach for clubs with that money being the sole income they get? From there, how many coaches have signed up to coach to supplement their incomes? Finally, how many coaches coach for clubs first and foremost because they a) love to coach b) love to develop young athletes? The reason I ask is that if the coaching is more of a financial effort, then I can totally understand the angry desperation. However, then it makes me wonder how dedicated they are to teaching my dd. I'm not trying to denegrate coaches for expections of payment. This is something that I have been wondering about. I could see that combining both a and b with a need for money would be the best of all worlds for a dedicated coach. But if I have my dd with a coach who is doing it for the money first and foremost, then would I get the best effort?

This situation made me think about it. Please feel free to give me your thoughts (as if I really need to).

InaB wrote:OK, I am doing a bit of a hijack of this thread to ask a couple of questions. How many coaches coach for clubs with that money being the sole income they get? From there, how many coaches have signed up to coach to supplement their incomes? Finally, how many coaches coach for clubs first and foremost because they a) love to coach b) love to develop young athletes? The reason I ask is that if the coaching is more of a financial effort, then I can totally understand the angry desperation. However, then it makes me wonder how dedicated they are to teaching my dd. I'm not trying to denegrate coaches for expections of payment. This is something that I have been wondering about. I could see that combining both a and b with a need for money would be the best of all worlds for a dedicated coach. But if I have my dd with a coach who is doing it for the money first and foremost, then would I get the best effort?

This situation made me think about it. Please feel free to give me your thoughts (as if I really need to).

I'm not a coach, so I can't answer any of your questions, but I suspect that they are much like a lot of America is today. As income goes up, for whatever reason, expenses rise at the same rate. I don't think its that easy to categorize that a coach that is "angrily desperate" as you put it, is in it for the money, and therefore their dedication is questionable.

I'm not meaning to pick at you at all, in fact I'm actually interested in the responses you receive, because I don't have a clue, but I am surprised at the lackadaisical attitude you seem to have about a club not paying its employees and contractors.

I would be more concerned about having a coaching staff with low morale (which surely exists if the club is not keeping up their end of the bargain). In my experience, an organization with low morale is an under performing organization, although not necessarily because of a conscious decision to do so.

You have really been able to separate the coaches into two categories:
1. Love to coach and develop young athletes, or
2. "in it for the money" which brings their dedication and loyalty to the team and its players into question.

I just don't think its that easy at all. I think it says a lot that, even without pay, they continue to practice, play games, travel to tournaments, etc., or pretty much business as usual. I simply can't question their motivation over this issue.

InaB wrote:Thanks for the input ballhead. Actually, I don't have a lackadaisical attitude about the situation. I wrote an email to the club asking how successful the club will be when they have a practice field but have coaches and teams walk away before they are used. I can understand that they put themselves between a rock and a hard place trying to finance practice fields, however, I told them that they need to honor their commitments to the very people who keep them as a club. Given that, however, I am willing to give them a chance to take care of their coaches and follow through on their commitment to pay them quickly.

As to my statement of angry desperation, my point was if the coach depends solely on this income or needs it as a second income (meaning they can't make it without the extra income), I could understand the situation.

My suggestion is that we all write the club and make them understand that this needs to be corrected. Anyway, I would still be interested in how many coaches do rely heavily on this income to survive.

Putting aside the question of financial need, getting paid is not just about the money. Compensation is also symbolic of respect and appreciation. When someone doesn't get paid properly, it is hard not to internalize that as a sign that the employer doesn't value the employee. However, If the club came to each coach up front and said: we think you are a

great coach, but we are in a bind. We are trying to improve the club and this will help you be a more successful coach in the future, but we need your help to do it. At that point, it is not about respect, but about working through a problem together.

It is also important to remember that the situation is somewhat unique - given the unfortunate embezzlement situation that has adversely impacted the club's ability to develop the same kind of practice facilities that the other major clubs possess. This is about overcoming adversity, not some employer who forgot to pay the employees.

Come on now, would you put up with our crap if you weren't getting paid? If I just loved kids and wanted to teach them soccer, I'd volunteer somewhere that the kids wouldn't otherwise have a chance to play soccer or something. Of course money is a big part of a coach's motivation...and deservedly so. Way too much "other" to deal with when coaching select soccer. Think about all the time away from their families...practices, games, constant phone calls from crazy parents, potential crazy parents they have to "smooze", all the time they spend planning, emails, dealing with the club, finding practice facilities (haha solar), putting fires out from things such as skills coaches that don't show, etc... I could go on and on. I think they deserve every penny they get paid.

I think you are very lucky to find a coach that does it even partially because of the genuine love of teaching the game. I think most do it for the income, it's their job and it is what they are good at or what they know best...why not make a career out of it? Or even a part time job of doing what you are good at, but I doubt many would even consider taking on such responsibility without financial compensation. And I don't blame them one bit.

Just my thoughts

oldboot wrote:

InaB wrote:Thanks for the input ballhead. Actually, I don't have a lackadaisical attitude about the situation. I wrote an email to the club asking how successful the club will be when they have a practice field but have coaches and teams walk away before they are used. I can understand that they put themselves between a rock and a hard place trying to finance practice fields, however, I told them that they need to honor their commitments to the very people who keep them as a club. Given that, however, I am willing to give them a chance to take care of their coaches and follow through on their commitment to pay them quickly.

As to my statement of angry desperation, my point was if the coach depends solely on this income or needs it as a second income (meaning they can't make it without the extra income), I could understand the situation.

My suggestion is that we all write the club and make them understand that this needs to be corrected. Anyway, I would still be interested in how many coaches do rely heavily on this income to survive.

Putting aside the question of financial need, getting paid is not just about the money. Compensation is also symbolic of respect and appreciation. When someone doesn't get paid properly, it is hard not to internalize that as a sign that the employer doesn't value the employee. However, If the club came to each coach up front and said: we think you are a

great coach, but we are in a bind. We are trying to improve the club and this will help you be a more successful coach in the future, but we need your help to do it. At that point, it is not about respect, but about working through a problem together.

It is also important to remember that the situation is somewhat unique - given the unfortunate embezzlement situation that has adversely impacted the club's ability to develop the same kind of practice facilities that the other major clubs possess. This is about overcoming adversity, not some employer who forgot to pay the employees.

Actually, I don't think there would be anything to talk about if it had been handled as you describe. Many of these coaches stood by the club the first time, and would likely have done so this time had they been given the opportunity.

Instead, as I understand it, the club unilaterally decided to withhold the money, did not communicate what they were doing until after they had done it, promising repayment within a week (which didn't happen), then repeated the situation a month later when the next payroll was due, adding insult to injury.

The story here is rather simple. There are no dark secrets. All of the coaches have been told this story.
Solar has worked very hard to come out of the hole it was in a couple years ago after the embezzlement. Finances were properly managed and coaches were always paid on time.
An opportunity was presented a few months ago for Solar to finally move forward with its own soccer complex. After lengthy consideration and due dilligence, Solar decided to proceed with development. Budgets were modified to include some up front development costs. This was done with a solid understanding (assurances) that the money needed to cover the field-related costs would soon be forthcoming. Thus, there would be no shortfall at the end of the soccer year.
Unfortunately, the money was delayed. Most recently, Solar has been told for over a week now that receipt of the money is imminent, thus it did not expect to miss June 1 payroll and nothing was communicated. As soon as Solar knew it wasnt going to arrive, coaches were advised.
Should Solar have waited on incurring any development costs until the money was actually in the bank? Perhaps. But it made a judgment call based on the facts it had at the time--and with a strong desire to get going on a project that would be a tremendous asset for the club and its players. Hopefully, the coaches and parents will recognize the value that Solar brings to the Dallas soccer community and hang in there for a few days through this bump in the road......

intheknow wrote:The story here is rather simple. There are no dark secrets. All of the coaches have been told this story.
Solar has worked very hard to come out of the hole it was in a couple years ago after the embezzlement. Finances were properly managed and coaches were always paid on time.
An opportunity was presented a few months ago for Solar to finally move forward with its own soccer complex. After lengthy consideration and due dilligence, Solar decided to proceed with development. Budgets were modified to include some up front development costs. This was done with a solid understanding (assurances) that the money needed to cover the field-related costs would soon be forthcoming. Thus, there would be no shortfall at the end of the soccer year.
Unfortunately, the money was delayed. Most recently, Solar has been told for over a week now that receipt of the money is imminent, thus it did not expect to miss June 1 payroll and nothing was communicated. As soon as Solar knew it wasnt going to arrive, coaches were advised.
Should Solar have waited on incurring any development costs until the money was actually in the bank? Perhaps. But it made a judgment call based on the facts it had at the time--and with a strong desire to get going on a project that would be a tremendous asset for the club and its players. Hopefully, the coaches and parents will recognize the value that Solar brings to the Dallas soccer community and hang in there for a few days through this bump in the road......

Hmm, I think I saw this movie before, what was it called? Think, think yes I recall It now......ANDROMEDA FC. Btw making payroll is business 101. You don't take payroll money to fund capital improvements. Solar RIP

intheknow wrote:This was done with a solid understanding (assurances) that the money needed to cover the field-related costs would soon be forthcoming.

I understand everything you wrote except for the above statement... Are you saying that Solar was waiting on a large lump sum donation to fund this new project? Or a personal loan?

The whole issue sounds like a big-time cashflow problem. Regardless, making major moves in new expenditures while speculating on new income is dangerous. If it isn't a lump sum donation or personal loan then please correct me. I don't think a bank would authorize a loan for a project knowing that the club's existing income wouldn't be able to support the new project and the employees' payroll at the same time.

intheknow wrote:The story here is rather simple. There are no dark secrets. All of the coaches have been told this story.
Solar has worked very hard to come out of the hole it was in a couple years ago after the embezzlement. Finances were properly managed and coaches were always paid on time.
An opportunity was presented a few months ago for Solar to finally move forward with its own soccer complex. After lengthy consideration and due dilligence, Solar decided to proceed with development. Budgets were modified to include some up front development costs. This was done with a solid understanding (assurances) that the money needed to cover the field-related costs would soon be forthcoming. Thus, there would be no shortfall at the end of the soccer year.
Unfortunately, the money was delayed. Most recently, Solar has been told for over a week now that receipt of the money is imminent, thus it did not expect to miss June 1 payroll and nothing was communicated. As soon as Solar knew it wasnt going to arrive, coaches were advised.
Should Solar have waited on incurring any development costs until the money was actually in the bank? Perhaps. But it made a judgment call based on the facts it had at the time--and with a strong desire to get going on a project that would be a tremendous asset for the club and its players. Hopefully, the coaches and parents will recognize the value that Solar brings to the Dallas soccer community and hang in there for a few days through this bump in the road......

Nice spin, intheknow, not quite honest, but a nice spin. A few questions, since you seem plugged in. You say all the coaches have been told this story? Let's see:

--When were the coaches advised of what's going on? Was it before the first payroll was shorted?
--Were the coaches led to believe a month ago that their money would be there within a week or so?
--If they hadn't already been shorted in one payroll, the actions on the June 1 payroll might not have been so egregious. Since they had been shorted before, why not just inform them of the situation before June 1, so they would, at least, have some awareness?
--Were any of these coaches given any options, or were they simply told here's what we did, you're just going to have to deal with it, sorry. Oh, and BTW, your money will be here really, really soon (repeat several times).

I think most would agree that it is morally and ethically wrong to involuntarily withhold employee pay regardless of the lofty goals or "the value that Solar brings to the Dallas soccer community". You just don't do it on the back of the employees without their buy in, BEFORE YOU TAKE THEIR MONEY.

One of the first rules of any business is that you don't mess with employee payroll. You just don't. There is no way to spin the behavior here and come up with an acceptable situation.

This club has some great coaches and teams, and its a shame that they are made to pay the price for others mistakes.

I would be pissed if I was a parent who paid for coaching and then found out my money was NOT being used to pay my coach.

silentparent wrote:
Hmm, I think I saw this movie before, what was it called? Think, think yes I recall It now......ANDROMEDA FC.

Exactly

I've told you all I know. I dont know if it was a pure donation or maybe an investment of cash to buy the property. I dont think it was a loan. Either way, the cash didnt arrive as repeatedly promised. The assurances continue that it is forthcoming.

I suspect the Solar leaders are as frustrated as the coaches. It is unfortunate for a club that has worked hard to stay afloat after what happened. Remember, they made payroll last season--the first year after the embezzlement. The shortage here appears to be entirely because promises made to Solar were not kept.

Thats really all I know. I'm only kind of intheknow. I just thought someone should defend some good people/volunteers who are doing the best they can.

As far as recognizing "the value that Solar brings to the Dallas soccer community and hang in there for a few days through this bump in the road......", the club doesn't have much value in my mind, its value is in its coaches and players.

It looks like Solar has shown how much they value their coaches by how well they communicated with them and how much they paid them.

Well lets take a poll. With new players that are looking to join & players already joined tis season. What is the percentage of players joining the new season?